Excerpt: "This is an blatant attempt to fracture the 99% into a Democratic Party organization. The leadership of MoveON are Democratic Party operatives. they are divide and conquer pawns. For years they ignored Wall Street protests to keep complete focus on the Republicans, in favor of Goldman's Obama and Wall Street's Democratic leadership."
The New Face on the American 4th estate. (photo: Mat McDermott)
OWS Organizers Blast MoveOn
15 October 11
avid DeGraw – one of the primary Wall Street protest organizers – just sent me the following email:
Top MoveOn leaders / executives are all over national television speaking for the movement. fully appreciate the help and support of MoveOn, but the MSM is clearly using them as the spokespeople for OWS. This is an blatant attempt to fracture the 99% into a Democratic Party organization. The leadership of MoveON are Democratic Party operatives. they are divide and conquer pawns. For years they ignored Wall Street protests to keep complete focus on the Republicans, in favor of Goldman's Obama and Wall Street's Democratic leadership.
If anyone at Move On or Daily Kos would like to have a public debate about these comments, we invite it.
Please help us stop this divide and conquer attempt.
DeGraw - who is wholly non-partisan [like the writers at Washington's Blog] - tells me that about half of the protesters are liberals, but the other half are libertarians (and see this.)
This mirrors what one of the original organizers of the "Occupy Trenton" protest told me: MoveOn attempted to set the agenda and pretend it was their event.
As I noted last week:
Everyone’s trying to cash in on the courage and conviction of the Wall Street protesters.
People are trying to associate Occupy Wall Street with their pet projects, in the same way that advertisers try to associate the goodwill of the Super Bowl, NBA playoffs, World Series or Olympics with their product.
But I hear from OWS organizers that the protesters come from totally diverse political affiliations. Many protesters support Ron Paul, many like Obama, others are for other parties or candidates or don’t vote at all.
The protesters themselves are having none of it, tweeting today:
We don’t want to be the democratic tea party or liberal tea party. We want to be our own movement separate of any political affiliation.
Update: Another tweet from the protesters:
We don’t represent liberal interests nor are we the liberal tea party. We represent the interest of the 99%
And as I pointed out Tuesday:
The two main challenges [facing the protesters are]: (1) An attempt by both the Democratic and Republican parties to co-opt it (see this, this and this); and (2) agents provocateur (see this, this and this) [and here].
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Comments
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Planting seeds of doubt totally unrelated to the OWS Movement....
They should keep their independence to stop this kind of Koch Brothere operation of whomever!
Stinks to high heaven.
Let's see if the Koch corporate libertarians - who are reported to make up half of the OWS mobilization group - can agree to those ideas.
"fully appreciate the help and support of MoveOn, but the MSM is clearly using them as the spokespeople for OWS."
OWS apparently welcomes the support of MoveOn but rejects any attempts by MoveOn, or any other organization, to co-opt and/or claim to speak for the movement. I'm sure they would be just as steamed if any of the unions who support OWS suddenly tried to take it over or appear as though they were the spokesmen.
I hope that clears things up for you.
QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: "The leadership of MoveON are Democratic Party operatives. they are divide and conquer pawns."
That doesn't sound very welcoming to me at all, my friend — in fact, it's more like a punch in the face than an outreach. And if you can't read those lines, learn to read BETWEEN those lines.
OWS should also remember that far more members of the Dem Party have supported them, while the Republicans ridicule them.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Without groups like MoveOn (SHOW ME PROOF THEY"RE RUN BY FATCATS!), no one would have known about OWS. I got email after email from many progressive groups asking me to sign petition after petition to prod mainstream news to report on OWS. Without that coverage, OWS would have petered out, and Bloomberg would have cleaned their clock. So OWS is ALREADY beholden to these groups, whether they realize it, or appreciate it, or not. They didn't do it alone. The whole world WASN'T watching — and STILL wouldn't be watching without the support of many liberal groups, made up predominantly of DEMOCRATS.
When the wolf is at the door is NOT the time to clean house, and it's certainly not the time to tear the house down.
And I find the oft-heard whine of "both parties are equally to blame" growing ever more irksome, tedious, tiresome and absolutely wrong and self-defeating. Al Capone and a pickpocket are both crooks, but in no way are they equivalent crooks.
It would be much easier to reform the Democratic Party than to start from scratch, That's a pragmatic REALITY. Just as the Tea Party took the Republicans further down into the gutter; the OWS movement, MoveOn, and the literally HUNDREDS of other true-believer liberal/progressive organizations can return the Democratic Party to the party it's SUPPOSED to be — JUST AS SOON AS WE, TOGETHER, DEFEAT THE PARTY THAT'S TRYING TO DESTROY AMERICA.
And if OWS has time to pick territorial arguments, they certainly have time to formulate some specific demands so they don't come across as so moon-beamy directionless. Anyone who's been paying attention could do this in five minutes.
I'm not sure that specific demands from OWS are strategically appropriate at this time. I do think that it is appropriate for other groups such as Unions and Move-On to make specific demands (eg, medicare for all or a doubled minimum wage) and reference OWS as representing the economic interests of 99% of the country. When the outrage of the 99% public majority, OWS, is apparent, it actually makes the argument of such groups for related agenda items much stronger.
I spoke up for accountability, as the What Next California Group (see PBS's By the People), but hope using "accountability" wasn't taken as through legal means. I'd rather have it simply through a score card, comparing what they said they intended with actual results. If they consistently miss the marks, It should be an indication of how trustworthy their "judgement" is. I've found a trusted source in the Sunlight Foundation, but the results should be grouped to reveal sponsored alliances like the American Legislative Exchange Council, et al.
History is riddled with hold-your-nose coalitions entered into for the greater good. We allied with Russia to defeat Hitler. How do you think that would have gone had we not teamed up with Stalin, a monster as equally monstrous as Hitler?
The NDP in Canada is the perfect example of how kicking BOTH neolibs and neocons where they belong - to the curb - is the most prudent, expedient way of changing things for the better. If we are not voting for the country we want, we shouldn't be surprised by the fact that we don't have it.
OWS could be the beginning of the end for the legacy parties. Let's hope so.
I know of a guy who just LOVES the way you think. His name is Karl Rove.
#OWS gets that. You, apparently, don't.
With the GOP, we at least know what to expect. Obama and he Democratic Party, OTOH, regularly give lip service - only - to truly Progressive principles at election time, then blame "GOP obstruction" when they control both Congress and the WH for not passing anything (like REAL health insurance reform), and of course say the can't pass anything when they don't control both branches. So, despite the "D" behind his name, Obama might as well be a Republican. Now tell me again - which is really worse, Reductio?
Answer: BOTH. Again, take a look at Canada's NDP to learn the importance of NOT COMPROMISING.
Obama doesn't control the Congress. The Dems from the South might as well be Republicans, they're so conservative. Yeah, yeah, we know that. The filibuster in the Senate meant we NEVER had effective control of the Senate. Yet, major accomplishments were made without the vote of a single Republican. I'm just as pissed as you are about lost opportunities, but I'm realistic enough to know that the game is over is we lose the White House and Congress. Your "bring the temple down upon us" bravado is reckless, and it will hurt millions of Americans in uncountable ways — just like Bush's decade of disaster did.
Here's the REALITY: If the Republicans win big in 2012, it's game over, and all you "take my ball and go homers" will be complicit.
Primary Obama, I don't care, or elect him and start on 2016, but we have to defeat the Republicans the best way we have, and that's through the established organization of the Dem Party. After 2012, you'll have two years before the midterms to build a third party that can actually win.
There is something far worse than not compromising — losing to the Republicans. Remember, Karl Rove is counting on you to do something real stupid.
The OWS movement has succeeded in mobilizing support precisely because of its non-affiliation -- not because it's drawing equally on "both sides", but because so many people feel profoundly betrayed by Obama and the Dems, their hopes raised and then dashed. Though they may (and probably should) eventually generate some concrete proposals, and seek to enact them via influence on the existing parties, the energy of all these justifiably disillusioned people can only be engaged by a thoroughly nonpartisan movement.
OWS needs to remain free to attract the disaffected and the disenchanted, and to give voice to a common outrage that cannot be expressed within the deeply compromised halls of the existing political system. Indeed, OWS erupted out of that broad inchoate frustration -- if the existing channels worked, people wouldn't be camping out in parks.
I think it is fascinating that the establishment media started carrying the story more prominently once the Democratic party (and other establishment groups, perhaps including Move-On) indicated that the OWS movement might be useful. Just a thought. to their own interests. Just a thought.
The OWS should formulate some CLEAR DEMANDS. That way they could be effecting change next election.
If the demands are CLEAR and expressed AGAIN and AGAIN. We can see who in congress will work to implement them and who we should vote for.
Otherwise it is a BIG WASTE OF MANY PEOPLE'S EFFORTS AND HOPES.
1. Pass a bill to reinstate Glass-Steagall, a safeguard separating banks' commercial lending and investment operations. "Its repeal in 1999 is considered the major cause of the global financial meltdown of 2008-09," the group states.
2. Repeal Bush-era tax cuts.
3. Prosecute "the Wall Street criminals who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis."
4. Overturn a 2010 Supreme Court decision that allows corporations "to contribute unlimited amounts of money to campaigns."
5. Pass the Warren Buffett rule on fair taxation, close corporate tax loopholes, prohibit hiding funds offshore.
6. Give the Securities and Exchange Commission stricter regulatory power, strengthen the Consumer Protection Bureau and help victims of predatory lending whose home loans have been foreclosed.
7. Take steps to limit the influence of lobbyists and eliminate the practice of lobbyists writing legislation.
8. Eliminate (the) right of former government regulators to work for corporations or industries they once regulated.
9. Eliminate corporate personhood.
10. Insist the Federal Elections Commission "ensure that political candidates are given equal time for free at reasonable intervals during campaign season."
11. Pass the Fair Elections Now Act.
12. Forgive student debt.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-occupy-chicago-demands-sidebar-20111016,0,4272482.story
Whether the OWS "movement" accepts it or not, they are a political force, and political power is exercised at the ballot box in this country. (In some places you still need a gun; I am not aware of other options.) So I'm not very excited about OWS adherents who "don't vote at all".
If OWS people think they can form a new political party and win elections, I'd say good luck, but I am not betting on it. This country has not had multiple parties since near its birth. However,the principles of the existing parties HAVE morphed over time due to the pressure of people working in them.
The 99% symbol is a nice rhetorical gambit, but I presume no one seriously thinks they are going to get 99% of the voters to agree with them. "We" (progressives in general) CAN, however, reclaim the principles of the Democratic party, and internal pressure is what is needed. I salute the OWS activists for doing this. They will be of zero value if they think they don't need political parties (and it ain't gonna be the Republicans).
Like it or not, this country is driven by the results of what happens at the ballot box. Unless and until another system for determining how public policy effects the lives of the citizens in this country replaces it, the ballot box is your only opportunity to make a difference. If you think those Wall Street folks literally sipping champagne and holding up signs saying "We are the 1%" are going to cave to peer pressure, you're far more naive than you're being portrayed in the media.
If not for bringing public attention to how Wall Street is systematically robbing this country and its citizens blind for the purpose of making a difference at the ballot box, OWS and its related offshoots are nothing more than whining and wallowing and self-pity. Please, moh20s, get real.
Pick your central issues, articulate your goals and speak to them. Randomly illustrating ad nauseum the various personal stories about how everyone's getting hosed isn't going to cut it. Identify specific measures Congress can pass to eliminate the conditions that are causing misery across the country. Otherwise you just look just as unhinged and rudderless at the Tea Party.
You are so right! Thank you for your insight! We cannot address climate change, food insecurity, poverty, education, etc. as long as money controls the agenda and buys the representatives . The constitutional amendment - which we the people have the right and now obligation to do - is the only way to turn a corrupt system beholden to money into a system where ideas can be debated and votes become the only currency of the system. The amendment would return representative government back to the people and oblige it to be responsive to the people.
Without the constitutional amendment, nothing we care about will be addressed.
However, the important point is about money. Today, politics has been reduced to fundraising and 30 second TV sound bites. The antidote to the Citizens United court decision is door-to-door & town-hall scale education, and GETTING OUT THE VOTE! Which is where we totally agree. There is no place in a democracy for non-participation: voting is an absolute, sacred duty above just about everything else.
I will give you a hint to my age: I lived through the activism of the 60s. And it was not in vain: it did not bring about the Age of Aquarius, let alone Nirvana, but it made a difference. But it has to ultimately be at the voting booth.
OWS need CLEAR demands and need to PRESSURE democrats. repubs certainly will not do us any good.
Your disappointment in Obama is understandable, but your vilification of him is unwarranted. I ask you to imagine this country with McCain as president. Hillary would never have gotten healthcare through, even though none of us are thrilled with single-payer being taken off the table.
Like I said in an earlier post, if you don't vote for the lesser evil, you ensure the greater evil will win. Life gives us lesser-evil choices every day.
We have a interesting time ahead...if I could afford it, I would have left this sinking ship years ago...
Yep, the tea party was absorbed and labeled after they were absorbed. So much for a citizen protest. Go back and check out what happened to the "hippies" and counter culture movement. All who protested or "dropped out" were copied, mimicked, disappeared, or absorbed. No more protests.
Wall Street Protesters are smart to resist influence from outside organizations. I dumped MoveOn once they morphed into a political group rather than their initial endeavors.
U.S. citizens have already been divided, even within the parties because that is an effective weapon against us. Choices are limited and we are the losers. And - nobody in this country runs for president without the approval of those I mentioned above. Nobody.
Most of us, I suspect, are sick and tired of being chumped by the Dems and their cynical "Lesser Evil-ism" strategy. It's time to "serious up" and cast a pox on "BOTH" these corporatist parties! If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO?
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Dream on! It was Congressional Democrats who gave Bush a blank check to wage war against anybody--or any nation state--he decided was a TERRORIST. Hence the bogus war against Iraq AND the continuing war in Afghanistan. These were the same Dems who voted overwhelmingly and slavishly for the so-called "PATRIOT Act"--an Act that Obama has made use of to assassinate American citizens with impunity.
I am tired of having NO ONE to represent the PEOPLE'S interests in Washington. Granted, there are a handful of genuinely progressive Dems in Congress; but they have become estranged from the hacks who are more interested in winning elections (i.e., "Power) than in doing what's right for the citizenry. I encourage everybody to vote for the Kuciniches, the McDermotts, the Feingolds and any other Dems with the integrity and courage to stand up to partisan pressure from those who have become the "property" of Goldman-Sachs and the rest of the corporate moles who have found their way into the Obama White House.
The Master of the Universe, the power elites know a dark truth: as long as OWS continues as is so will the vile control of the financial elites and the corporations; the plutocracy will remain in power. Thus the next step should be the dismantling of the corporate power structure that governs us. How? We should form a political movement where we pledge our votes only to candidates who will introduce in Congress a Constitutional Amendment that makes all public elections publicly funded. We should be as resolved to that purpose as the NRA is to anti-gun control, the fundamentalists are to anti-abortion and Republicans are to no tax increases. Our votes are our weapon; let's pledge them to this cause. I can't think of a better expression of solidarity.
The plutocrats are counting on the weather to wear OWS activists down. They believe that time is on their side. We cannot let our young heroes down. Not now.
He is just as flaming mad as the rest of us.
We need to start somewhere. I do hope he is able to get things going.
I feel as you do, that we have to be a really big movement, that is why I think the OWS HAVE to formulate some clear demands, BEFORE it gets so cold that the people need to find shelter.
The thought of the senate being republican is sickening. And another republican president scares the daylight out of me.
WE MUST STAND TOGETHER. THE REPUBLICANS ARE COUNTING ON US ATTACKING EACH OTHER. PLEASE DO NOT PROVE THEM RIGHT
Yeah, well I voted for Obama based on his pledges for change. But it ain't happened.
This can work only if the millions of us stand firm and committed to this goal - as committed as the NRA is to anti-gun control and Republicans to no new taxes. No politician in his or her right mind would dare to ignore millions of votes especially this coming election, the most critical in recent history.
Instead of public funding of this drivel, how about requiring TV stations to provide equal time to all candidates for office: free, or at a "cost only" rate (perhaps reimbursed by the government), as a condition for their license to use the public airwaves? This would not only eliminate most of the demand for money but vastly improve the quality of debate at the same time.
Where we need a constitutional amendment is in eliminating the "personhood" of corporations. Now that is something to get people behind!
Congress also need to find a way to overturn or counter that damned citizens united. We have NO idea who is stealing our elections, for since the pacs do not have to disclose where the money comes from. it could be China or Saudi Arabia..... OR ....Who knows??
I have always been outspoken about their "yellow dog" loyalty to the Dems, continually pointing out the Obama's administration betrayed progressives in a steady slide from his election. The rhetoric was inspiring but his heart belonged to Goldman Sachs. I kept encouraging at least one endorsement to a Green, any Green, but to no avail
I think it's a mistake to do more than maintain separation from MoveOn. Historically, it's so like the left to split and split again, demanding "purity" instead of coalition. That's a way to lose.
have tried to "co-opt" the OWS movement. This article is puzzling...it leaves more questions than answers. As diacad asked, who is DeGraw and where did he get his statistics? And why does he think MoveOn's support is an attempt to take over the movement? Seems to me OWS should be happy to have all the support they can get! After all, there's strength in numbers, as we all know. I so hope statements like this, that are definitely divisive in tone, stop!
Wait Minute...
I thought libertarians are against government controls of any kind,
AND,
the main reason for OWS is the global meltdown of financial institutions which resulted from Republican drive to maintain NO regulations on these same financial institutions.
If that is true, what are libertarians doing at a protest against de-regulation?
Noam Chomsky is a "libertarian socialist."
Some behavioral economist lecturing at UCSB is a welfare state libertarian.
And to the Tbaggers 100% not for their side is a socialist or maybe a communist or the anti-Christ?
It does get confusing.
Best I can make out is libertarians are for personal freedom which makes them close to liberals. If they do not like government regulation to protect the public interest--"the free market doesn't need none of that regulation, sonny" then they like Ron Paul and Greenspan, devotee of Ayn Rand. If they like gov't to protect them from bad things but not protect big corporations that screw them over, they like Ralph Nader and occasionally the Dems..
Last I heard Paul and Nader were proposing a third party, probably for educational purposes about their overlap. Neither one were laughing in the clip I heard on-line.
We saw the T-party form, and since then, be co-opted by certain elements that caused erosion of the "membership". Now, many of those same people have reorganized themselves with OWS - and for good reason. I applaud OWS for being careful to keep themselves self defined, and responsive to those who see the messages as closely relating to our own issues.
The overarching part of their definition is the relationship to the interests of 99% of the population, but many of "us 99%" have yet to understand, really, how it applies to us.
My best suggestion is to find your group and talk to them - and not go, wanting to argue.
This is a good thing if it promotes biliousness in the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch, and their "yes" people - and all of the rest of the rip-off artists.
Here is a web page with the most profound sign I have seen in our Occupy Lexington (in support of Occupy Wall Street) demonstrations.
http://www.barefootandprogressive.com/2011/10/homeless.html
They are joined at the hip with the DNC. When I get their e-mails I usually write back and tell them what I think of their claims to be anything but partisan slaves to the "Democratic" Party.
They are up to their usual tricks here in Worcester, Mass.; but, thanks be to the gods, they don't seem to be having much luck...let's keep it that way.
Very clever how you skipped over two terms of Bush, and HIS "Wall Street buddies" He did after all, appoint the CEO of Goldman Sachs - Henry Paulson, as his Secretary of the Treasury.
This is easily identified as Republican SPIN.
Consider yourself "out-ed", dude.
How much is the Republican party paying you to monitor RSN and "contribute" this kind of blatant "herring across the proletariots path"?
Your assuming the Nom de Plume of "Joe Hill", a selfless martyr for our constitutional rights who was murdered by a corporate owned system during the 1930's, is flagrant. You don't deserve to tie Joe Hill's shoes!
(May he rest in Peace - as I am sure he is. The Meek shall inherit the Earth)
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...But I never died.
I suggest you go and get an education somewhere so you can MAYBE understand the nuances of political dialogue instead of being locked into your mindset that allows you only 2 alternatives. I've been a socialist and a Green Party member for over 40 years. Smarten up before you play with the big guys...DUDE.
You might also brush up on your spelling. The word is "proletariat"--a group of which I'm a proud member.
Folks should dig deeper before interpreting incorrectly an alert and observant poster such as yourself.
Thanks, again, Glen. You say it better than I...and with fewer words!
You are the guy who skipped over Bush.
I'm very much impressed by OWS's spirit and the processes that have been instituted. This is truly a People's Movement. As a veteran of the Anti-War, Queer Liberation, and Economic Justice movements of the past 50 years or so, I am VERY much heartened by what I see and hear among the (NON-partisan) participants.
Now...Why in the world are you attacking me? Are you so wedded to the DNC party line that you refuse to listen to the Truth or consider alternatives to the mindless loyalty of partisan hacks?
Give my regards to the "Old Pueblo".
I guess you just keep voting for the lesser of two evils (Repugs v. DINOs) and expect different results. Sad.
Meaning literally that. They will make sure that some more genuflecting coward takes your spot in Congress, next election
You're suggesting that MoveOn is a 'leftist' organization? Are you one of those who thinks Obama is a socialist?
NEWSFLASH...MoveOn is a slave to Obama...who is NO kind of socialist I would recognize as one.
Join your local Democratic organization and pull it to the left. Take over the party the way the Tea Party has overwhelmed the Republican party. Please.
I am getting old and tired. Many of my liberal friends have given up and deserted the party. That is not the way to change things. Real Democrats will welcome you.
Al Gore and John "Reporting For Duty" Kerry cost Nader the elections of '00 and '04. I voted for him twice. I haven't voted for the "Democratic" presidential nominee since '92. Slick Willy turned out to be an A-1 opportunist and liar.
Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice,...!
There are darned few 'real Democrats'. They pretty much died out after LBJ (the last "real" Democrat). If it weren't for that crazy Asian War (in which 'my' team took Second Place), LBJ would go down as one of the greatest presidents since FDR.
We lefties need to get a grip and learn and heed this maxim - coming to is a beginning; working together is progress; staying together is the key to victory.
We have genuine enemies; they are not merely opponents; they are enemies of us, and of the Republic.
Let us all quit whining and start shining the bright light of truth and courage on these folks as they slither out from under the rocks we are kicking over!
There was a great Occupy rally of 700 people in Boulder, Colorado NOT organized by MoveOn, just by a few people putting out the call. However the newspaper printed it differently:
"The Occupy Boulder rally was organized by the recently formed Boulder chapter of the progressive group MoveOn.org and was part of the Occupy Wall Street movement that has spread across the nation."
This must remain a movement of individuals, even if on their own they affiliate with various organizations.MoveOn is a Democratic front and has a lot of people fooled.The opposition has the echo chamber which is talking about OWS as a MoveOn George Soros funded operation.
Whether they really are consciously trying to do that or not, until the OWS guys get their public face together and speak for themselves, there will be a parade of people filling the vacuum. I saw a really good OWS spot on Lawrence O'Donnell last night. Those wholesome sentiments in that ad spoke very eloquently for the cause and are exactly what OWS spokespeople should be focusing on relentlessly, and pronto.
I also think dissing MoveOn serves absolutely no purpose, especially when its an ill-composed and arrogant insult that in my view MoveOn does not deserve.
Time, indeed, to lighten up and make some apologies. I would bet 99% of MoveOn members just want to be supportive and helpful.
The moment it looks like more than an expression of sentiment, it will get rough, it will get like Egypt or Syria or Yemen or like the end of the Paris Commune or like Tiananmen Square or fill in the blank
This is a long, long process with deep historical roots and it will recur again and again.
Today is just the exhilaration of many people agreeing and showing their feelings. Tomorrow it's likely to spawn co-option, corruption and conflict.
Sorry to rain on your occupation.
.
Right on, Anarchist 23! It's reassuring that most of those participating in this discussion are capable of seeing the Big Picture. Anyone who considers EITHER of these "two" parties [actually, it's only ONE "Chamber of Commerce" Party] a vehicle for genuine change is fooling him/herself. BOTH of these parties are dedicated to the preservation of a "free" market economic system no matter how many people are suffering under its yoke. The time has come to re-consider the viability of a society that upholds the class relationships engendered--and sustained--by an economic arrangement based on Competition, rather than Cooperation.
The only consolation is that eventually (and sooner than most people expect) will collapse. If History is, as Hegel wrote, the "progress of the Idea of Freedom", it becomes increasingly clear that capitalism should be on its last legs, and the "Owl of Minerva" is about to take flight.
Lot of Organizations who have been around, see people coming to events and they decide maybe we should go there to get...
I saw it with Environmental Issues. Small groups would start something, look to others for info, then the other org want to take the cake not the piece offered. Move On, AFL have their own jobs to do...Wisconsin, Ohio etc so they should concentrate on their message, their work. They should support all good Movements so as to get more people who are interested to continue to spread awareness of all causes. There are hundreds.
OWS must stay focused, get the TPigs from starting problems. They do not have the time to divide their Space. This is their Action...everyone else can get into the line and March along, give Support, remember this is for the 99%.
So many here want a new Democratic Party, Liberla leadership etc...these OWS do not want to get caught up in this, you should understand that. No negativity on their part, but I am glad they drew the line in the Sand. This is a First Step in showing the Vultures they are not taking sides. Good for you OWS!!! It would be so simple wouldn't it, pack up go home, your safe you are under 'whose wing'? Well, they have their own 'Net' and they will learn how strong it is on their own.
I also don't believe for a minute that libertarians are a significant part of this movement. They are the tea partiers. It may reflect Mr. DeGraw's political leanings - but the truth is that libertarians would favor less Government and less regulation of Wall Street. I have to say that where I see the value of Occupy Wall Street is in helping purge the Democratic party of the DLC DINOs that have been helping the Republicans for thirty years and forcing the party to decide where it's loyalties lay -with thte 99% or the 1%. For too long it has failed to fight for the 99% and the threat of OWS turning into a third party that will should scare the bejeebers out of Democratic washington. I HOPE this is the liberal tea party - and that it slaps the right wing democractic leadership (and thos around the President) clear out of American politics.
We don't want to shut down Wall Street, we just want to return to the pre-Reagan circumstances when they could not ROB the whole damned world and get away with it.
In short, we want to take away the "License to Steal", that was handed to them 30 plus years ago.
The baggage of both parties and their peripheral organizations is too heavy, too poisonous and they are all untrustworthy. OWS needs to carefully protect its independence.
Moveon has a very technologically savy internet outreach. Obama probably can't win without them. But moveon must realize that Obama has made a total scift from his compaign promises.
I for one will no longer participate in any of Moveon compaign while they are emotionally wedded to Obama. The balls in Moveon's court. Either Moveon is with the movement or they are with Obama. Moveon cannot serve two masters.
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It was obvious from the very beginning that MoveOn was a tool the DNC manufactured to Bill Clinton's specifications. Your experience with them, Tee, is not at all uncommon...in fact, it's routine for them to stifle ANY opposition that would question their mission to stand behind ANY policy (no matter how cockamamie or how hurtful it might be to the 99% they claim to work for) promulgated by a Democratic president.....EVEN when such a policy is next-of-kin to the Republican agenda. They certainly don't have any patience with what we might call 'Candor' [QED].
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BRAVO, Earl....and VERY well-said!
Make no mistake: I'm talking about nothing less than the formation of a new American center. People are realizing that the two-party politics has us all focused on the things that divide us, with no focus on the things that unite us. This can, and I think will, be a broad-based coalition.
We will welcome your voices in this movement, but I highly doubt the occupy movement will by consensus become a new front for the Democratic party.
Of course I can't speak for everyone, just for myself and what I've observed.
Unfortunately this is EXACTLY our predicament now - many wanting change but without analysis and choices nothing happens - or worse - powerful forces step in and try to create the change they want "by any means necessary", buying influence and spreading disinformation. Sound familiar?
My point is this - demonstrations are important - but they don't substitute for the other part of the process - defining what we want and heading toward it - think of it this way - picture yourself at a crossroads, you need to choose which direction you're going to take - otherwise nothing happens, no matter how many gather at the crossroads.....this is why leaders or singular issues make the path forward clearer - either can articulate a direction and shape inchoate frustration into something which can be put into action.
BTW to the person who said there was no leader in anti-war demonstrations - it was our opposition to the war which united us - in any case, it's a process so be patient, all.
I WANT the occupy movement to come up with a platform. But I DON'T want it to be a liberal platform, because that would lead to no change happening at all. The mainstream media and political establishment is doing everything in its power to frame this as the left's response to the tea party - that's NOT what it is, from what I've seen.
As you say, if we don't take charge of it ourselves, "powerful forces step in and try to create the change they want "by any means necessary", buying influence and spreading disinformation. Sound familiar?" Yes, it sounds familiar - it sounds like the Obama campaign.
People from all across the political spectrum are uniting around the FACT that the political process is hopelessly broken, by the influence of money and the two party system. DEMOCRATS should be just as afraid of this as REPUBLICANS; instead, you bastards tacitly assume we're just more of you, and that you can speak for us. IT ISN'T TRUE.
You can smell Wall Street Supporters all over this one.
And you printed this , Wonder why.
These people do not use lables so why do these so called organizers.
This is an attempted take over by the Right.
THERE ARE NO LEADERS AND ORGANIZERS THAT IS why no one can make statements like this and it be true.
Also there are many many different groups who own their on motives and reasons and they support their own concerns.
THERE ARE NO ORGANIZERS and there should be no conference!
Just sayin.....
The OWS movement need only serve to intervene by saying "NO. NOT ANYMORE!"
Prosecute the banksters for malfeasance and mortgage companies for fraudulent foreclosures. Tax Wall Street transactions to help pay for their mess. Strengthen financial reform. Create state banking systems like North Dakota's. Stop bailing out big banks and start backing up community banks and credit unions. Pass a constitutional amendment that declares that corporations indeed ARE NOT persons and do NOT have the rights of individuals. Institute real campaign finance reform now.
Prohibit state voter-suppression laws. Reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine that the Reaganistas scuttled. Rework trade agreements to make them fair to both the American worker and American businesses. Actively pursue corporate tax loopholes and offshore tax hideouts. Do not renew the Bush Tax cuts for the rich and powerful. Declare all transnational companies must abide by America's laws if they want to do business in America, and pay taxes. Stop subsidizing millionaire farmers and corporate farming and support small, sustainable farms. Support American-owned manufacturing IN America on a number-of-employees basis. Declare that a pension is a legal contract, and prosecute those corporations AND STATES reneging on those contracts. Corporations must pay for their own pollution clean up.
I know the concept of focusing on what UNITES the American people is a bit intellectually complex for those who have taken the Democratic bait, hook, line and sinker. But it's the only way forward.
And your dismissal of libertarians shows just what sort of partisan hack you are. I have serious philosophical disagreements with libertarians, but I also realize there are a WHOLE LOT of things they and I can agree about, along with most Americans! Campaign finance reform is an obvious start. Corporate personhood is also a likely target. And have you heard Ron Paul speak about wars and the military-industrial complex? In many ways libertarians are more liberal than 'liberals' like Obama.
Am I to believe that all these white kids speak for the interests of my Indigenous sisters and brothers living on the reservations like their father's father's father's father's spoke for us - with the best of intentions, of course and for our own good?
Perhaps the worst victims of the American economy, undocumented immigrant laborers, their exploitative wages and hostile racist legislation being passed against them is the most painful, tangible and obvious manifestation of capitalist greed in our country today. Yet their plight seems to be completely invisible to "the 99%."
My local city has an "Occupy" Facebook page to connect and discuss the important
economic issues the movement is so boldly addressing. When I put up a link to a story about Alabama's new anti-Latino Jim Crow laws frightening families away from jobs and schools, I was politely informed that it wasn't an issue relevant to the discussion being had by "the 99%."
Please explain.
"... darned few 'real Democrats'...died out after LBJ (the last "real" Democrat) ..." WHAA????? LBfriggin'J??? You mean, the guy who likely had interest in JFK's head explosion, likely had similar sentiments about MLK as those who offed him, and who escalated Vietnam, for as memory serves, oil that didn't exist and then we were trapped by our own propaganda and couldn't easily get out of it --sound familiar? LBJ was a "great" politician because he *was* a "politician". He ran, 1st Texas, then Congress, with an iron fist AND was the EPITOME of compromise to "get things done". That's what politicians do--they compromise. Think Civil Rights ACT so Blacks would switch to Dem party. You had me clapping 'til you love-fested just about ANYONE from our .gov past who were ALL were products of well-heeled machines -even Kennedys need $ to win office. The machines *are* "the business" and ALWAYS have to compromise with big business to maintain the status quo -morals & ethics be damned! All must be done to nudge things in the right direction --the more subtle, the better, even if it only means, doing a little painting: when B2 was in, Walmart storefronts were Red; just before BO won, Blue; now, they are slowly turning Tea Party brown! The marketeers among us will get it. Emma G. said it best: "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal".
You're not telling me anything I didn't know about how electoral politics works
--Maxey Lynch
It also seems that this blogger is trying to give libertarians (as in Libertarian Party) a bigger presence than is factual and is trying to restrict the range of issues being discussed. I welcome all comers for whatever reason. But I have no interest in any goups trying to stake a claim on this. Help, yes. Take over, no. And this guy seems to be the latter.
It also appears that the blogger is woefully uninformed and out of date about MoveOn. MoveOn is unquestionable liberal/progressive. That does not make them a Democratic Party organ. MoveOn members are typically far more lefty and far more in tune with OWS than are most of the Democratic Party elected officials who have moved, in fear of being called bad names by Limbaugh and crew over the past 20 or so years, to the right of traditional Republicans like Everett Dirksen or Dwight Eisenhower.
The simple fact is that this guy, probably inadvertantly, showed his true colors.
"The cooptation process for the Obama campaign is well on its way. By largely restricting itself to the Obama message (as opposed to any policies or actions) of going after Wall Street, but ignoring the rest, OWS is parroting their line."
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I haven't seen much evidence of OW (as a movement) basing their rhetoric on any messages of Barack Obama. As far as I can tell, Obama HAS no message....at least no message that Wall Street would disapprove of.
Attacking Wall Street is the best way to expose the root of all those problems you mention. Is there any doubt about who benefits from all these wars? Wall Street is the beating heart of capitalism. So any assault on Wall Street DOES threaten the entire system that provokes wars and finds-- or manufactures--tax loopholes and ruins OUR environment in the name of PROFIT.
My point is that Wall Street is the very belly of the beast that causes ALL manner of ills.
No One is trying to co opt anyone. If we want to eliminate the the corporate money that pollutes both parties we have to reject ideological purity and work together. MoveOn is extending a helping hand, it should be accepted as such.
Finally, there is no way to defeat corporate influence other than for OWS participants to register to vote, work against candidates who are puppets for the corporations and support those who are independent of them or run their own candidates.
Protests without votes do not accomplish the goal. In 1910 European Socialists thought that the unification of workers throughout Europe would end war. Four years later we all know what happened.
LETS WORK TOGETHER. ITS OUR ONLY CHANCE TO PREVAIL
I think it is good that the movement doesn't want to be co-opted by any affiliated group, that is why they don't allow politicians to speak so much. That is the genius of this movement. They're trying to hold accountable all politicians and controlling systems.
It really ticks me off when I hear this movement compared to the Tea Party as they couldn't be more different. OWS everywhere is totally funded by people's donations for food and such . The Tea Party people were fooled into supporting the people who had done them in and avidly allowed the Glenn Beck loony toons to co-op their efforts. They failed to get anything accomplished, except allow rich corporatists to continue making obscene amounts of money.
This is a very exciting time and one too long in coming.
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"Let 10,000 flowers bloom!" Isn't that what makes for progress?
MoveOn is out for themselves and no one else. They send out emails begging for money so often its considered spamming by some folks. They do not support any group or organization outside their own as witnessed by their total lack of support for the anti-war movement groups during Bush43's reign of terror. As a former volunteer for MoveOn, I can say this with knowledge of how they work and why they work as they do.
Within days of OWS getting Corporate Media attention, MoveOn was pumping out the emails, begging for money as usual and using OWS as a catalyst to squeeze that money out of the email recipient.
Any group that hits you up for money in every single email they send should set off your bs meter, as it smacks of rightwing fundraising tactics, otherwise known as astroturfing groups.
If that doesn't tell you their agenda, I don't know what does.
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