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"So why does it bother Liz Cheney so much that an accused murderer would be tried for his crimes in a real, solid court? Is it simply because it belies the need for fake courts and indefinite detention?"

File photo, former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz Cheney, 09/29/09. (photo: Jamie Squire/Getty)
File photo, former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz Cheney, 09/29/09. (photo: Jamie Squire/Getty)

 

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+20 # Walt 2010-10-09 08:52
This entire matter of using military courts to try civilians is an argument waiting to backfire on Americans. And so is torturing of prisoners, no matter what their crimes.
If we do it, will we later be screaming "Geneva Convention" when some other nation does the same to our own?
This started with the previous administration, not to mention an illegal invasion of another country. How is it that Bush and Cheney have evaded both impeachment and an international court?
 
 
+15 # Kal 2010-10-09 09:27
We know that torture yields confessions. The validity of the confessions has been in doubt for many centuries. Even the Catholic torturers cast doubts on it as recently as 500 years ago.

Cheney's desire for vengenance and her lack of desire to be bothered by laws is typical of her family's lack of interest in anything but getting their way. Why was her husband considered the most evil man in US public history? Because he was truly evil. He could care less who is harmed by his desire to punish people. Guilt or innocence are irrelevant so long as Dick's bloodlust is sated. Very much typical of certain parts of our right wing. Law and order are to be enforced upon others but never on those in charge.
 
 
+13 # Richard Simone 2010-10-09 10:21
Bush, Chaney and the rest of the cabal are war criminals, and one day we will come to deeply regret the fact that the Obama administration has chosen to "let it all go".
To "move beyond" torture is to guarantee it continues. Same goes for the CIA's black prisons, some of which remain in business - again with Obama's OK.
 
 
+13 # fredboy 2010-10-09 10:23
I am amazed by the number of people--perhaps once good people--who have been warped into supporting torture.
Put simply, torture warps and reshapes truth. Review history. Pain and fear distort, twist, erase, and annihilate truth.
So the torturer can "define" truth and force the victim to support that view or perspective.
Let's also remember that the US now ignores the World Court and UN provisions against torture. We have joined the world's scumbags, those who abhor human rights.
DeSade proclaimed "Man is capable of anything."
Looks like we've proved it.
 
 
-11 # john rusnak 2010-10-09 10:32
a gov,t is that entity authorized to use force to protect its citizens.A citizen is a MEMBER of society who supports the gov't and receives its protection.A terrorist attempts to destroy both the gov't and its citizens.One of the benefits of being a CITIZEN is our hard won legal system where we are innocent until proven guilty.If we are guilty, we are removed from the group as we violated the definition of citizen.A terrorist has not earned our rights as a citizen and is not entitled to them.The use of torture though, is not condoned by any rational society
An enemy combatant whether overt or covert is an enemy and should be handled per the Geneva Convention, something terrorists fail to apply. No matter what you call it there is a war going on. A military court is the correct place for enemy combatants not our hard won court system.THAT is reserved for citizens.
This approach may also answer what is an illegal alien.
No matter what way we deal with this we are bound by morals
 
 
+12 # Ginny 2010-10-09 11:38
Morals? You must be joking in talking about torture.
 
 
+6 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-09 15:49
No John...the terrorists you're talking about are not enemy combatants, they are criminals but not members of a nation state or recognized polity. And Constitutionall y speaking, where does it state that the courts are bound only to citizens? And as for "a terrorist" not having "earned our rights as a citizen"...I implore you to try your best to understand that NO citizen earns their rights in any way what so ever. Rights are rights. They are not earned. They are not confered. Nowhere in the Constitution is their any mention what so ever of earning a right because a right is what a person, any person under our control, is born with. Rights can only be taken away, not bestowed. As for terrorists not observing the Geneva Conventions, must I really remind you that the Geneva Conventions don't apply to non-governmental, non-states in the first place? Al Qaida cannot be guilty of breaching something they are not bound to. Only criminal law covers that.
 
 
-3 # kooldad4u 2010-10-09 18:41
your prejudices are showing
 
 
+2 # John A. Slack 2010-10-12 05:18
John Rusnak needs to learn that the U.S. Constitutional justice system of due process applies to all "persons" under its jurisdiction, not just citizens.

When he writes, "A terrorist has not earned our rights as a citizen and is not entitled to them." he exhibits a profound ignorance of the U.S. Constitution.
 
 
+9 # Realist 2010-10-09 14:22
By not prosecuting Bush and Cheney for ignoring the Constitution and the Geneva Convention, Obama has, in effect, condoned these practices. The Constitution is meaningless if it is not enforced, and the United States has shown itself to be a hypocritical nation. How sad.
 
 
+5 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-09 15:58
I have a problem with this too. This endless expansion of American Exceptionalism that exempts us of every law we would enforce is simply astonishing. I would propose that Bush, et al, has retroactively justified every act of terrorism brought against us, further justified in our ongoing wars in the middle east resulting in the death of many hundreds of thousands of innocents. I don't see how we can morally prosecute any of the alleged terrorists we've charged. We can't even claim a legal foundation for what we have been doing in that part of the world without either lying through our teeth or manipulatind and straining to credulity every conceivable pretext for the rotten and terrible things we have done there. Just who are the terrorists out there? We need a national mirror in order to reveal that truth, and the shame is that this savage abortion of justice and the rape of that part of the world continues brought about by a people who are immune to shame. That simply defines cultural psychosis.
 
 
+8 # kooldad4u 2010-10-09 18:43
perhaps one day a foreign country will arrest Bush and or Cheney for their crimes. Would it not be interesting to see a replay of Pinochet?
 
 
+7 # Dickinseattle 2010-10-09 15:11
Aside from the fact that torturing POW's or anyone else is a U.S. and International crime for all the obvious reasons, the ussue goes first to why? In the case of the Cheney Administration it would most obviously be used to support it's contentions for the need to wage a criminal war of aggression. To do that they would not need to promote the truth but to hide the truth and since you can get tortured victims to say anything you want, that would be the most obvious need here, namely to produce lies that support your own lies about this illicit war. That in itself requires a cover up of yet more lies, enter Liz Cheney.
 
 
+5 # Pat Williams 2010-10-09 20:52
With Dick Cheney on his way out, it seems his daughter, Liz, is defending what he did. His heart no longer beats. He has a pump circulating the blood. How long can that last? Anyway, Cheney has amassed great wealth. He is heavily invested in private prisons and, of course, deeply involved with KBR. What else? Blackwater aka XE with its extensive fraud? Liz is inheriting significant wealth and vested interests. She spouts unconstitutiona l drivel to protect her ill-gotten riches.
 
 
+4 # Dwight Peck 2010-10-10 03:51
I suspect that Pat Williams is correct. The motive behind Liz Cheney's rantings is probably just a desperate battle to make her father's crimes seems less atrocious, and, hopefully, less likely ever to be properly prosecuted.
 
 
+3 # local 2010-10-10 10:16
Who is Liz Cheney??
sould that be: what is a Liz Cheney?
Does any body care?
 
 
+4 # foxtrottango 2010-10-10 10:37
The biggest mass murderers in recent history is the GWBush Administration and it's immediate staff, namely Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice, and even Colin Powell.
They instigated the wars crimes, the tortures, the atrocities on poor innocent people. The lied to the American people to the point where the country is now and will be forever divided morally.

..and until we bring those responsible for degrading this great nation, the USA will never again be view a just nation.

All Liz Cheney is trying to do is to save her evil dad's neck! Nothing else matters.
 
 
+2 # Sukumar 2010-10-11 08:31
Liz Cheney and her rantings are what one gets for taking prosecution/impeachment of the Bush-Cheney admin.off the table at the very outset.
 
 
+1 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-11 17:04
Quoting
Liz Cheney and her rantings are what one gets for taking prosecution/impeachment of the Bush-Cheney admin.off the table at the very outset.


...and who is preventing prosecution from being put back on the table? Could it be parties who fear their own criminal liabilities? My guess is that this would be the case.
 

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