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Scheer writes: "Let's just dip our fingers in purple ink and pose for photos now that voting has the same significance for us as it had for those Iraqis who got conned into thinking they were participating in some grand democratic experiment. Our own elections, the ones our government has modeled for the world, are a hoax."

The upcoming presidential election has raised questions of fairness and equality. (photo: Bob Gathany/The Huntsville Times)
The upcoming presidential election has raised questions of fairness and equality. (photo: Bob Gathany/The Huntsville Times)

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+5 # Steve5551 2012-02-09 21:05
REVOLUTION! It's to the barricades we must hasten
 
 
+2 # Billy Bob 2012-02-10 08:25
Interesting comment coming from someone I've never seen on any to these threads before.
 
 
+12 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 08:58
Are you suggesting that Steve5551 is an FBI infiltrator/agitator working on a sting?

Not unheard of, and now appears to be standard tactics.

Arrive in flashy car in poor muslim neighborhoods. Throw money around and work on poor, impressionable young muslims citing the Quran's more inflammatory passages; promote incendiary ideas, and offer up hundreds of thousands of dollars, plus technical training and planning assistance to incite terrorist actions, ... then foil the plot just in time.

Standard modern-day FBI law enforcement... lazy-man's justice, if you please.

Much, much easier than finding people already disposed to and engaging in criminal activity; real criminals are cagey and sly. Plus, this way they can practically choose the bad guys.

How great is that?
 
 
+12 # John Locke 2012-02-10 08:29
Steve5551: PLease be careful what you post, these sites are being monitored by big brother, any revolution Must remain peaceful and non violent and must occur through voting for a viable third party candidate one not being controlled by Wall Street...How do we accomplish this... we use email to 10 friends who will email to 10 friends and so forth until the message gets out...with a bank account set up for contributions... we form our own super pack from the 99%...
 
 
+7 # tomo 2012-02-10 10:06
Along your lines, John Locke, I think it is quite within our power to organize "targeted boycotts." A highway patrolman does not say: "Either I arrest EVERYONE breaking the speed limit, or I arrest no one." Rather he says, "Here comes one of the more egregious speeders; I'll arrest him--and hopefully that will function as a warning to the others." We KNOW of egregious malefactors. Six months of resolute resistance to the temptations of Walmart by, say, 75% of American consumers would suffice to wobble Walmart off it present pinnacle and send it spinning toward doldrums. Sure, someone may argue: "Well, c'mon! Target does some of the same things." NOT RELEVANT! If Target does some of the same, the downward spin of Walmart would invite a pause for reflection. Likewise, the oil company that has raped the Gulf of Mexico (and is now in a new, expanding surge of self-congratulation) can be disciplined by American consumers even as our alleged government smiles benignly from the sidelines. Never mind that Exxon too is up to its eyebrows in atrocities. To this present moment Exxon has never seen an oil company genuinely disciplined for its misbehavior. The troubles of BP would be a great eye-opener.

The only thing that keeps us from going this route is apathy. You, John Locke, strike me as a born rabble rouser for a cause like this.
 
 
-1 # John Locke 2012-02-10 16:50
tomo: Thank you, yesterday, I would have welcomed it...but my heart is no longer in this...I am about finished making comments on RSN...or even reading the articles any longer. I have not been able to open peoples eyes, I tried, by presenting facts...
But most just don't want to see the truth...or do more than complain, and To be honest I no longer care...but "your" vision is a good one!
 
 
+4 # giraffee2012 2012-02-09 21:20
Thank You Justices Scalia and Thomas and the other 3 idiots who sleep with big$ "person hoods" - If I'm going to sleep around it will be with someone who bathes, eats, rides a bike, and can marry me and have a family too.

When Citizens United "person hood" is overturned you bums will be "outed from the Supreme Court and like "W" you'd better hide under a log bc there will be millions of groups for Justice (etc) wanting to make sure you "hurt"

http://discussions.latimes.com/20/la-pn-pelosi-goes-after-colbert-in-spoof-ad-20120209/10?sort=asc

For the best exposure of the Super-Pacs and a good laugh!

NEVER EVER VOTE REPUBLICAN/TP but do vote in 2012
 
 
+1 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 08:22
If anybody will be "outed," it will be that cock-sucker Scalia.

However, there will be no ousting.
 
 
+12 # John Locke 2012-02-10 08:37
giraffee2012: I am voting third party, for Rocky Anderson. I don't believe in either the republican or democratic party...To me they are both controlled by Wall Street...I want someone they don't control.
 
 
+12 # tomo 2012-02-09 21:36
I've been waiting for this statement from some thoughtful person for quite awhile. It's the moment when the kid says "The Emperor has no clothes." We have no democracy. We may once have had it--though it was always subject to various loops, somersaults, jerry riggings, and omissions--but now it continues to exist as no more than an aspiration or a memory.
 
 
+7 # John Locke 2012-02-10 08:42
tomo: You are right, but there is a way back if we unite and pull away from the two party sham... we can elect a third party candidate without the big pac money. But we can also garner that money. But not by continue to play russian roulette, by loading one chamber with one party, then the next chamber with the other.
 
 
+11 # Douglas Jack 2012-02-09 22:10
When colonial invaders came to America, we destroyed a system of Economic and Political democracy. First Nations has a universal system of multiple stakeholder progressive ownership in the Production Societies and Multihome living in Longhouse (apartment-like) and Pueblo (townhouse-like). https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy if we want to live democratically we will do well to recognize the foundation upon which we stand and learn from those who have welcomed us for hundreds of years only to have us respond with genocide and murder.
 
 
+15 # tomo 2012-02-10 08:35
[quote name="Douglas Jack" if we want to live democratically we will do well to recognize the foundation upon which we stand and learn from those who have welcomed us for hundreds of years

It's a beautiful thought! I have the impression that most of the tribal people we have run roughshod over would have been amazed that we have poor people amid our plenty. Where we see "free enterprise" and "upward mobility,"
I think they would accurately have seen a sundering of the the bonds that make society wholesome. I lived among pacific islanders for five years in Micronesia. While they did not seem to me--or to themselves--as "perfect people," the idea of a "poor class" was to most of the 13 cultures with which I became acquainted simply unintelligible. For some of the tribe to be "poor" would, they thought, have been an an absolutely intolerable disgrace to the whole tribe. For the most part, their "incentive principles" were based on respect and shame. The idea of enforcing incentive through the threat of deprivation was one they regarded as barbaric.
 
 
+1 # John Locke 2012-02-10 16:55
tomo: I applaud you, You are one of the wisest posters on this blog spot. If there were more like you and perhaps a hand full of others, I might feel differently. Stay posting your message is a very appropriate one.
 
 
+12 # sandyboy 2012-02-09 22:14
Suppose they gave an election and nobody came?
 
 
+9 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 08:17
Electronic balloting will show the Republican candidate winning.
 
 
+5 # Billy Bob 2012-02-10 08:26
Three repugs would still show up and have complete control over the result.
 
 
+8 # John Locke 2012-02-10 08:51
sandyboy: I am very impressed with the thinking that is going on here. I believe as we become aware, we can and will change things back...No democracy has lasted in all human history because the people failed to see how they were being led to the slaughter, and manipulated... there is still time to save our democracy, but time is running out quickly. As I have posted, we MUST break away from the banks control of our politics, that means an abandonmment of the two party system, an abandonment of the republicans and the democrats alike and support a true third party candidate who is not controlled by wall street's influence.
 
 
+11 # shortonfaith 2012-02-09 22:50
The only people going to jail under the Obama Presidency is the truth tellers. This is our only hope for the future? This is the best of two very very evil groups. You think an honest person has a chance around here? Think again. Who's going to jail & who's getting bonuses & job offers? The last president to put away a banker was Reagan. In America, the biggest & worst crooks rise to the top. Run away now while you still can get a visa. Run. Run away an don't say a word to anyone, about anything. Run
 
 
+7 # cordleycoit 2012-02-09 22:53
Of course it's a double cross . What else could it be? It, being the spectacle, the floor show that runs in circles while the people running things get on the show. One has to do the step of faith to escape going into spiral logic, then reach for the truth and one can be free. Occum was right, and truth cannot be bought.
 
 
+11 # Dave45 2012-02-09 23:23
For common people who do not have hundreds, let alone millions of dollars to contribute to political campaigns, the default position has always been, "Well, at least I have my vote and I can express my opinion and critique through it." However, as Scheer has eloquently pointed out, that default position is no longer valid. Add to what he has said about the financial sewer (that we benignly refer to as "campaign financing") the reality that administrative corruption of the electoral process itself has played a major role in the last few national elections, an individual vote is now not even worth the stamp used to send in an absentee ballot. The nearly consummate deterioration of the USA has reached a point where it would seem that only a revolution of the people en masse could change the course of this pitiful excuse for a nation.
 
 
+1 # dorianb@fuse.net 2012-02-11 21:50
Dave45: You have written an eye opening, mind expanding critique of Scheer's excellent editorial.
 
 
+14 # John Locke 2012-02-10 00:09
Robert you missed a point, wall street has been bankrolling both parties all along, all the super packs are doing is adding more money to buy the election... however is there really any difference whether Obama or Romney wins... won't it still be wall street calling the shots and aren't these puppets owned by the wall street backers...I agree that the super packs are going to flood propagands onto the airways...but isn't the real issue how to clean up the wall street money game of buying the candidate?
 
 
+7 # dorianb@fuse.net 2012-02-10 01:27
Excellent article! Thank you. The money being spent on political campaigns in both parties when there are so many unemployed and impoverished people in the US is obscene. The SuperPac system of unlimted funds being given to candidates with no governmental record keeping is corrupt, unethical and a sham in a democracy.
 
 
+19 # futhark 2012-02-10 02:24
Why are we still at an impasse about voting fraud in this country? Look around at the world and find out what really works in countries with real democracies. Toss all the electronic voting machines in the scrap heap. In Canada, as I understand it, all the votes are on paper ballots and are counted by poll workers, of which there is one for about every 500 voters. Isn't an honest and accurate count more important than an instantaneous one?

The election and campaigning season should also be limited in time and money made available for propaganda. I propose that the states agree to a system of 4 regional primaries, one per month starting in April, rotated at each national election. Think of the money and fuel saved by candidates who wouldn't have to criss-cross the country for weeks on end! Also, each state would get its fair time in the political limelight instead of having micro states like New Hampshire or military-industrial complex enclaves like South Carolina winnow the candidates.

The current system is fraudulent, unfair, and boring, to boot!
 
 
+12 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 08:25
Hear hear.

If there must be electronic balloting:

It is simple:

Mandate paper ballots as the official determiner in elections: use electronic machines for voting, which produce paper ballots for submission. Let the electronic machines do the non-official initial tabulating, soon after the ballot-box closes, count paper ballots on separate machines, and, if contested, count paper by hand, etc.
 
 
+7 # Dave45 2012-02-10 21:36
Good idea, nice2blucky. But why not take it a step further; simply have all voters file paper ballots and then hire regular people to count those ballots (like the Post Office tradition of hiring extra workers during the Christmas season). Absent the corrupt manipulations of our slick, political pros, the counting would probably be more honest, and it would provide work for a lot of people at a time when a lot of people need work. (By the way, as so many have already suggested to the hard-of-hearing Obama and Co., putting people to work on a massive scale stimulates the economy. Electronic balloting is only a necessity for the intelligence-challenged major media whose perspectives rarely extend beyond their lust for a good next day's headline.
 
 
+8 # stonecutter 2012-02-10 03:54
Sorry, Mr. Scheer, but if the enemy is shooting at you with dum-dum's, you can't fire back with rubber bullets. Of course, your point about abandoning principle is correct, but as long as these insane rules exists as a result of Citizens United, the president is right to level the playing field. The ONLY way to change this toxic, rigged system is through a constitutional amendment, a fundamental change in the status of corporations re campaign cash, and the retirement or unfortunate demise of a few Supremes...we know who they are.

BTW, the voters have been suckers long before Citizens United...now they're just irrelevant suckers.
 
 
+5 # lcarrier 2012-02-10 05:25
Regarding the statement in The NY Times that Obama has abanodoned a "fundamental principle" in accepting super PAC money: it's a fundamental principle of mine not to cause harm to others, but if someone were threatening me and my family I would unhesitatingly act in self defense. That's what the SCOTUS has done to Obama and the 99% with its Citizens United v. FEC decision. When a financial juggernaut is aiming for you, you've got to fire back--otherwise, it's "game over."
 
 
+15 # fredboy 2012-02-10 05:54
Your premise is validated by the fact that Florida challenged--and thus destroyed--the voting rights of thousands, mainly minority, in 2000. Yet to this day I have seen little reform and no call for prosecution of those who did this. That's how little we as a nation value our election process. It disgraces the very term "democracy."
 
 
+8 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 07:39
The other day, Cenk Uygur came out on the side of Obama accepting PAC fundraising because, he essentially said, that it is not smart politics to unilaterally disarm. It is a rational argument.

But what is implied is that Obama has such character that, unless pinned down by circumstance, that he is beyond corrupt politics and would not otherwise advantage himself through craven political maneuvers.

However, it this regard, Obama is a one-trick pony who lowers himself on virtually every issue; his failure by design with excuses in waiting, and his they-made-me-do-it, there-was-no-other-way style fools nobody but the true believers.

So the only justification for this decision is the cynical belief that money equals election success, absolutely.

To suggest that Obama will lose this election because of money is to entirely disregard the ill will that he has fostered with progressives, liberals, and Independents, as well as the never-to-be-satiated or appeased (for any reason) Republican faithful.

In the end, if (and I predict, when) he loses anyway, the question becomes -- as it should be now: How do you go down?

As history is, he has done it through inept, craven (lack of) leadership, political maneuvering, broken promises (on issues that matter most), and betrayal.

It is completely consistent with his political history that he begrudgingly(?) acquiesces to all things financial.
 
 
+4 # dorianb@fuse.net 2012-02-11 21:29
This is a great comment, Nice2blucky!

"In the end, if (and I predict, when) he loses anyway, the question becomes--as it should be now: How do you go down?"

Not well in history text books, because he will not only have lost the election, he will have forfeited his principles, again, which is why the end does not justify a "corrupt" means to seek or achieve a goal. What will be said about Obama is, "It is completely consistent with his political history that he begrudgingly (?) acquiesce{d} to all things financial".
 
 
+7 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 09:35
-1 already, and no comment. Surprise surprise. You Obama apologists, nobody connotes negatively against Obama without you noticing.

But I made quite a few distinctions and characterizatio ns, a simple thumb down doesn't say a whole lot, except which team you are on. Could you possible express a wonderful defense for your chosen one, one that addresses something articulated? Something not so absurd as a comparative to the big, bad alternative?

Am I mistaken? Is it not just like Obama to cave or act against expressed principle?

When he loses, will you wish that you'd not been so obstinate? When actual progressives -- ones who base opinion on actual representation, character, and upon leadership qualities, actions and deeds, rather than lofty speeches of want and hollow rhetoric, manipulative political ploys, and then capitulation cast as concession and excuses paraded as stern, difficult choices by an otherwise great man, whose integrity is beyond question and above petty partisan squabbles; it is simplistic sophistry as rational argument ... when actual progressives tried to wake intellectually dishonest, willfully blind, and/or delusional Obamabots, before too late, to reconsider their unquestioning, dutiful loyalty, and pursue a Democratic Primary challenger, rather than suffering the unfortunate, alternative consequences -- because as a matter of conscience and political strategy, re-electing Obama is out of the question -- what did you do?
 
 
+8 # Glen 2012-02-10 17:00
I will gladly reply, nice2blucky. Obama is part of an agenda, rather than being an independent entity that caves in or whatever. It no longer matters who is president. To criticize George W. Bush is to criticize Obama. A number of folks on this forum do understand that.

There are no legitimate candidates for "president". We are ruled by entities far beyond the individual representative of those entities.
 
 
+5 # nice2blucky 2012-02-10 19:46
One of the main problems in modern politics is that people abandon their consciences and vote for a horrible candidate they are convinced is "viable." This approach is what perpetuates a manipulated reality and results in the continued marginalization of the majority.

There is a new Party, the Justice Party. Its candidate, Rocky Anderson, expresses common-sense views without the hedging and hypocrisy that define the two present parties.

If enough people hear his platform and stated intent, and learn of his past accomplishments as Salt Lake City's Mayor, this election could be amazing.

It does matter who is President. From the minute one is sworn in, he/she has the capacity to make wise appointments to positions with far-reaching authority. He/she sets (and enforces) policy, commissions studies, and directs investigative bodies. He/she can push Congress to address issues, and can exercise the power of veto. He/she controls the military and executes the laws of the land. While it is not everything, it is a lot, and it certainly matters.
 
 
-3 # Glen 2012-02-11 06:41
If I continued to believe that, I would vote. As it happens, presidents don't have the freedom you think they do. Those days are gone. Those with the real power pretty much dictate those appointments, and they are set even before the "election". Deals are drawn up between corporations, the wealthy, etc., right along with the over all agenda.

Thinking along the lines of years ago, will not make it come back around. This government and our country are nothing close to what they once were.
 
 
+5 # nice2blucky 2012-02-11 09:04
Yeah, I keep hearing that, that Presidents don't have freedom to do what they can. I cannot make sense out of it. Is it one of those things like: I see, but do not observe? What am I missing?

What's the rationale explaining why Presidents cannot do what they say they will do seem obligated to do by Constitutional authority?

Like, for example, why do Republicans always make far-right appointments, recess appointments, if necessary; or use procedural tactics and stunts, threats (that they back up through action, as opposed to idle threats) and political leverage; veto authority (both the threat of, and those backed up by actual vetoes) and the bully pulpit to impose their will, etc.?

And Democrats do the same -- minus the backing up of threats; or using political leverage; nor using procedural maneuvers (when they'd be most effective. D's facilitate, and play patsies for, the neo-con agenda.

Obama didn't have to appoint Geithner, Summers, etc. ... ad nauseam... to Treasury, to the SEC, FDA, MMS, ... ad nauseam. He didn't "have" to act as a tool for bankers and industry, etc. ... ad nauseam.

...

By chance are you meaning, that a President that has any intention of gaining re-election -- or for fear of assassination -- hasn't the freedom to act against the powerful interests?

Because, if that's what you mean, that's what you should be saying. Because those are very different discussions, altogether.
 
 
+3 # dorianb@fuse.net 2012-02-11 21:40
You get a "Thumbs Up" from me and not just on the Post. You Rock, Nice2blucky!

"One of the main problems in modern politics is that people abandon their consciences & vote for a horrible candidate they are convinced is "viable".

You should write an editorial on this & send it to RSN: "Writing For Godot".
 
 
-6 # Holyone 2012-02-12 12:00
Count me in!I am and will be a sucker. Where's my sucker pin? This is pure dribble.Read the history books.

Vote Democratic and make some changes rather than whinny discourse.
 
 
-3 # opieee 2012-02-13 08:01
One good thing to keep in mind; Obama doesn't HAVE to deliver a quid pro quo to a PAC because he can't run again.

I hope for a far different Obama in the second term for that very reason.

It is also of interest that because of PAC money some of the GOP contestants are till alive at this late date (NEWT for one)instead of having gone the way of the dodo.
 
 
+1 # RJB 2012-02-14 12:52
We get the government we deserve. We were supposed to be paying attention.
 
 
-2 # Windy126 2012-02-15 09:54
I truly believe that we will get a "New Obama" this time. He has nothing to lose and can go full tilt. What we need to focus on is getting the republicans out of Congress. Anyone with the agenda to "make Obama a one term presidents" should be removed. They are not in our est interest. They are only focusing on their own power. We do not matter to them. I want a Bernie Sanders representing me. I write editorials to the local paper all the time. I have developed a following. What amazes me is who some of them are. My spouse who was embarrassed by me now revels in the fact. I can't give a lot of money, I am disabled but my computer still works. That's all I need. That and the fact my family came here in 1620 and survived. Read up on what hardships they went through in the first couple of years. Daily ration of food was 6 kernels of corn. Incredible, but gives me the strength to realize I can persevere too. As the mother said when her child swallowed the penny, "this too shall pass".
 

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