"I am opposed to the building of the 'mosque' two blocks from Ground Zero. I want it built on Ground Zero."
Portrait, Michael Moore, 04/03/09. (photo: Ann-Christine Poujoulat/Getty)
I Want the 'Mosque' Built ON Ground Zero
11 September 10
If the 'mosque' isn't built, this is no longer America.
am opposed to the building of the "mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero.
I want it built on Ground Zero.
Why? Because I believe in an America that protects those who are the victims of hate and prejudice. I believe in an America that says you have the right to worship whatever God you have, wherever you want to worship. And I believe in an America that says to the world that we are a loving and generous people and if a bunch of murderers steal your religion from you and use it as their excuse to kill 3,000 souls, then I want to help you get your religion back. And I want to put it at the spot where it was stolen from you.
There's been so much that's been said about this manufactured controversy, I really don't want to waste any time on this day of remembrance talking about it. But I hate bigotry and I hate liars, and so in case you missed any of the truth that's been lost in this, let me point out a few facts:
1. I love the Burlington Coat Factory. I've gotten some great winter coats there at a very reasonable price. Muslims have been holding their daily prayers there since 2009. No one ever complained about that. This is not going to be a "mosque," it's going to be a community center. It will have the same prayer room in it that's already there. But to even have to assure people that "it's not going to be mosque" is so offensive, I now wish they would just build a 111-story mosque there. That would be better than the lame and disgusting way the developer has left Ground Zero an empty hole until recently. The remains of over 1,100 people still haven't been found. That site is a sacred graveyard, and to be building another monument to commerce on it is a sacrilege. Why wasn't the entire site turned into a memorial peace park? People died there, and many of their remains are still strewn about, all these years later.
2. Guess who has helped the Muslims organize their plans for this community center? The JEWISH COMMUNITY CENTER of Manhattan! Their rabbi has been advising them since the beginning. It's been a picture-perfect example of the kind of world we all want to live in. Peter Stuyvessant, New York's "founder," tried to expel the first Jews who arrived in Manhattan. Then the Dutch said, no, that's a bit much. So then Stuyvessant said ok, you can stay, but you cannot build a synagogue anywhere in Manhattan. Do your stupid Friday night thing at home. The first Jewish temple was not allowed to be built until 1730. Then there was a revolution, and the founding fathers said this country has to be secular - no religious nuts or state religions. George Washington (inaugurated around the corner from Ground Zero) wanted to make a statement about this his very first year in office, and wrote this to American Jews:
"The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy - a policy worthy of imitation....
"It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens ...
"May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants - while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."
3. The Imam in charge of this project is the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Read about his past here.
4. Around five dozen Muslims died at the World Trade Center on 9/11. Hundreds of members of their families still grieve and suffer. The 19 killers did not care what religion anyone belonged to when they took those lives.
5. I've never read a sadder headline in the New York Times than the one on the front page this past Monday: "American Muslims Ask, Will We Ever Belong?" That should make all of us so ashamed that even a single one of our fellow citizens should ever have to worry about if they "belong" here.
6. There is a McDonald's two blocks from Ground Zero. Trust me, McDonald's has killed far more people than the terrorists.
7. During an economic depression or a time of war, fascists are extremely skilled at whipping up fear and hate and getting the working class to blame "the other" for their troubles. Lincoln's enemies told poor Southern whites that he was "a Catholic." FDR's opponents said he was Jewish and called him "Jewsevelt." One in five Americans now believe Obama is a Muslim and 41% of Republicans don't believe he was born here.
8. Blaming a whole group for the actions of just one of that group is anti-American. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic. Should Oklahoma City prohibit the building of a Catholic Church near the site of the former federal building that McVeigh blew up?
9. Let's face it, all religions have their whackos. Catholics have O'Reilly, Gingrich, Hannity and Clarence Thomas (in fact all five conservatives who dominate the Supreme Court are Catholic). Protestants have Pat Robertson and too many to list here. The Mormons have Glenn Beck. Jews have Crazy Eddie. But we don't judge whole religions on just the actions of their whackos. Unless they're Methodists.
10. If I should ever, God forbid, perish in a terrorist incident, and you or some nutty group uses my death as your justification to attack or discriminate against anyone in my name, I will come back and haunt you worse than Linda Blair marrying Freddy Krueger and moving into your bedroom to spawn Chucky. John Lennon was right when he asked us to imagine a world with "nothing to kill or die for and no religion, too." I heard Deepak Chopra this week say that "God gave humans the truth, and the devil came and he said, 'Let's give it a name and call it religion.' " But John Adams said it best when he wrote a sort of letter to the future (which he called "Posterity"): "Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present Generation to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." I'm guessing ol' John Adams is up there repenting nonstop right now.
Friends, we all have a responsibility NOW to make sure that Muslim community center gets built. Once again, 70% of the country (the same number that initially supported the Iraq War) is on the wrong side and want the "mosque" moved. Enormous pressure has been put on the Imam to stop his project. We have to turn this thing around. Are we going to let the bullies and thugs win another one? Aren't you fed up by now? When would be a good time to take our country back from the haters?
I say right now. Let's each of us make a statement by donating to the building of this community center! It's a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization and you can donate a dollar or ten dollars (or more) right now through a secure pay pal account by clicking here. I will personally match the first $10,000 raised (forward your PayPal receipt to This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ). If each one of you reading this blog/email donated just a couple of dollars, that would give the center over $6 million, more than what Donald Trump has offered to buy the Imam out. C'mon everyone, let's pitch in and help those who are being debased for simply wanting to do something good. We could all make a huge statement of love on this solemn day.
I lost a co-worker on 9/11. I write this today in his memory.
"The man who speaks of the enemy / Is the enemy himself."
- Bertolt Brecht
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Comments
Bosque Bluebonnet
You got it wrong. WTF is wrong with YOU, people.
This center will be shining beacon of hope amongst the other seedy businesses like the massage parlors, etc. in the neighborhood. When people of different faiths support the rights of each other to practice their faiths in peace, America becomes a stronger, richer nation in more ways than one.
Lets make sure that bigotry loses in this case, and the goodwill of the American spirit survives.
So who are the un-Americans saying "No"?
But I like the idea below of an arts center too as a counter to nearby Wall Street that along with McDonald's has killed more people than 19 crazies.
Muslim Americans should not need to have to go the extra mile to satisfy peoples' unfounded fears. Muslims did not attack the US on 9/11, terrorists who were muslim fundamentalists did. Very similar to the KKK and "army of god" who kill men, women and unborn children every time they bomb abortion clinics.
Muslims do not need to apologize for the attacks of a few extremists.
This IS a COMMUNITY CENTER that is open to people of all faiths and beliefs. So, see you there! :)
So I propose that ground zero be turned into Ground Zero a center for the arts where all the highest attainments of music, theatre, dance and all the worlds art can be represented. This a tribute to the better side of man's nature. Self realization of ones own personal beliefs can still be thought of and worshiped here among all the better works of man
Put aside the anger and make here a tribute to life
Living in San Antonio, I thought that the Dallas Cowboys "are the only unifying
part of our human nature."
I love ya. I admire and support you and agree with every word you wrote about America, it is the religion which concerns me. The religion which creates terrorists who would commit violence against others. I would like to see the Islamic community, their religious heads, Imams, etc., publicly declare that they are removing the words Infidel, Fatwa and Jihad from their bible, the Koran. As long as these commands exist, its followers will act on them. I worry that where large communities of Muslims live they will force Shar'ia law be accepted instead of our own judicial system based on secular civil law, which by the way I have been told is already in Michigan. There are 85 Shar'ia courts in Great Britain. I hope America will stand up to any religious demands from a growing Islamic community because I am not happy how America has not even been able to separate enough from the bibles. Except the Judeo/Christian faiths have had an enlightenment and don't continue their violence.
good thing you weren't an abortion center doctor back in the 90's. or say an arab in the, oh, the ENTIRE middle ages. or US catholic in the 1900's. or a . . . .
Would you (or Jews and Christians generally) be ready to do the same with the Bible? Only ten commandments fit on the two tablets, for the rest read Deuteronomy, for example: "Thou shalt kill all Malekites." Most people consider the Malekites to no longer be a distinct people, but some Jews interpret this commandment to mean any enemy of the Jewish people. Netanyahu refers to Ajmadinejad as a Malekite. Around and around it goes!
I have just searched for the word "Malekite" within all the Bible's books and wide range of translations and it is not there.
You asking for something that can’t be done. Because the word “Infidel” doesn’t exists in the Qur’an. It is a word that was used for the first time by the “Crusaders” on their way to the Holy Land, because they thought, contrary to their ignorance, that Muslims didn’t believe in God. I wish people validate what they hear before they repeat them. Otherwise we become part of the problems and lies.
Sharia law and courts are like that and there is nothing unusual or wrong or to be feared as long as there is no conflict with civil law. Why would you deny them the freedom to decide matters that other religious groups have?
Ahem. The Christian faith has its own past to answer for too. The very word "infidel" is Latin, not Arabic, and means "unfaithful." For centuries Christians slaughtered people of other faiths without mercy, sometimes even killing faithful Christians too if they couldn't be separated out from the "others"; as a famous quote has it, "Kill them all; God will know which are his." As for "jihad," it has essentially the same meaning for Muslims that "crusade" has for Christians. (A "crusade," originally, was a war for the Cross--war, that is to say, in the name of the Prince of Peace.)
I encourage everyone to do what you wisely chose to do. I am getting tired of people who just repeat what they hear without validating things for themselves. God gave us brain to be used. Those who says that Islam spread by the sword and that the Qur’an is violent, surely these people never read the Qur’an. Well let me just give one fact here; in Arabic, there are 17 different words all equal to the word “Sword”. Guess how many times any of these words mentioned in the Qur’an? Answer is: 0 (ZERO). Guess how many times the word “Sword” is mentioned in the Bible? I stopped counting after reaching 50. Read, learn, be wise.
I'd like to see Christian and Jewish leaders remove all references to stoning sinners, judging others (lest ye be judged), and banning Red Lobster.
As for sharia law, unlike Afghanistan, where the Taliban will simply grab some one off the streets and drag them into sharia court, in this country, if someone wants to voluntarily commit themselves to that authority, that is also their right. Crazy as i may think it is.
In the past twenty years the USA has bombed/rocketed, nine muslim countries. As a matter of fact, in April last year, we bombed FOUR muslim countries the same day: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Syria! NO WONDER WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TERRORISTS!
I just wanted to comment on your blog about the religion concerning you, I am a Muslim myself, and maybe you dont know this, but no where in the holy Quran does it suggest that people kill in the name of god, god actually prohibits endangering other human beings, it is muslims who take the religion, make it their own and make the excuse of killing in the name of "god", for those who havent read the Quran, it is the most peaceful holy book, read between the lines and you will see, the religion is not what extremists act, it is they who act on their own
Just as the Christian Bible instructs followers "Thou Shalt Not Kill", it is humans who mess it up by picking and choosing parts of the Bible that they wish to use and ignoring the rest and interpreting the parts that they do want to use in whatever way they choose.
You know what it says about Christians and Jews...they are respectfully called "People of the book". Because all this 3 religions believe in 1 GOD. Jihad does not mean killing people. Its just fighting oppression and fighting for your rights only if you are oppressed. Murdering and killing is a huge sin in Islam. These murders killed people for their own benefit or whatever reason it might be. Later they tried to wear the cap of religion and escape from it. That's not right. Religion should not be blamed for this.
You know how much every Muslim has suffered after 9/11. How much of hatred, intolerance. Even though they were not responsible for it. Even though they know that their religion never teaches violence in the first place. People need to understand things deeply. Not just read one side of the story. Not just listen to one party. I wish people who misunderstand us, hate us ..did that before learning about us and our religion. A child in Afghanistan and and orphan 6 year old girl in Iraq, both lost their parents, family and home in the war. They were asked to define who terrorists were for them and guess what they said.
Well let me just give one fact here; in Arabic, there are 17 different words all equal to the word “Sword”. Guess how many times any of these words mentioned in the Qur’an? Answer is: 0 (ZERO). Guess how many times the word “Sword” is mentioned in the Bible? I stopped counting after reaching 50.
By the way: also the word “Infidel” doesn’t exist in the Qur’an. It was used for the first time by the “Crusaders” on their way to the Holy Land where they massacred 70,000+ (Muslim, Christian, Jew) in four days. Read, learn, be wise.
1. Shatila & Sabra massacres - September 16-18 1982.
2. What about Troubles - conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland and England.
3. Bosnian Croatian conflicts
4. Isn't war violence? Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan were attacked by the very people that you say have had an enlightenment.
5. Not to mention continued violence against the innocent people of the West Bank.
Please...do not insult our intelligence and do your homework.
Ron (Unconditional Love Of God never Conditional Religion of Man)
Ron
of so doing.
The funniest thing about their statements is that they, in essence, are acknowledging that the grown-ups in this situation are the Moslems because the bigots always state that they (the Moslems) should have sensitivity to the feelings of the bigots, and never do you hear that the bigots should have sensitivity to the American values that are at stake here.
Thanks for pointing that out, I never even thought about it that way! So true.
That is so cool...
Just an Evel Dewarsh I guess trying for 2 decades now to shine a light on the cockroach corner (DC.) sorry cockroach for the slight.
I abhor the Christian Taliban for the ugly retrade thinking that seems to occupy their community. Has it occurred to you that because they are human beings who, by the way, inherited some of their retrage thinking from the same historical sources as the rest of us, just might be capable of evolving? You are quite mistaken if you think that there aren't some prominent Muslims that are feminists, gays and lesbians and groups more tolerant than you are aware of. I think the Muslim community is just as capable of evolving as the rest of us.
Why I'd be so delighted Rock! I know a number of them from my university, some who have been guests in my hoome. Out of courtesy, I would prefer they have a chance to name themselves. I'll invite them to do so if they'd like. Of course they live here because they are less likely to be persecuted.
Let me challenge you Rock, to see if you can find any on your own. They are fairly well known. Go to any university library and do a little research on your own. You'd be amazed! Gay and feminist middle easterners can speak for themselves so eloquently! Educate yourself!
The murdered ex Pakistani prime minister was a female and an active womens rights activist, Benazir Bhutto. A narrow minded American would be lost in thought wondering how a female ever became the prime minister of a country like Pakistan?! That's more amusing I think :)
Also worthy of mention is Ms. Asma Jehangir http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_Jahangir
kindda defeats your point
you have the right to follow whatever you choose and so do we, the point is NOT to become hostile over our differences.
What about the retrograde thinking that seems to preoccupy Christian communities? The whole so-called Defense of Marriage foolishness was and is championed by Christians who spout all over the place that their Bible and their God says that marriage is between one man and one woman and nothing else! Egads man, open your eyes! It is PARTS of Bible verses that are carefully selected (with the rest of the passages ignored) and used as a reason to abuse and deny equal rights to gays and lesbians.
I was born in Germany in l939 and know the evils of persecution and discrimination only to well. And I am not even Jewish.
You sure you don't want to run for president?
Well I certainly have taken those feelings into consideration. It's not as simple as you think. For a fact, and as someone who lost family there, I can tell you that there are surviving family members like me that agree whole heartedly with Michael Moore that this Mosque should be built right in the footprint of the first building that fell. So, on behalf of my dear cousin who died there, I commend you Michael! He was a great fan of yours and would have been proud to not have died in vain, good Christian man that he was.
Through this, we can see who the Intolerant, Anti-American, Anti-Constitutionali st, Opportunistic, Self Aggrandizing, Global Corporate CONservative Wealthy Talking Heads of Deliberate National Division for Profit and Fame and Infamy are in Media and Politics. We can see Global Corporate Media for what it is in general through this insane NON-ISSUE lens.
We Americans profess and sell ourselves around the world to be the center of Freedom and Liberty FOR ALL.
Who are the self serving jerks and outright threats to Freedom and Liberty for ALL in this 'Non-Issue'?
A NON-ISSUE is what this all should have been without much comment from the beginning. BECAUSE it should have been all along just one more indication to the rest of the world-> WORLD! AMERICA IS THE BEACON OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM FOR ALL, EVEN AT GROUND ZERO.
Yet, its not really that way here, is it.
circumstances I think safety should be the first consideration.
They can't win. I keep thinking we need something along the lines of what the Danes did when Jews were order to wear a yellow star of David to identify themselves to the Nazis. Everyone showed up wearing the symbol.
Michael, start something like that so we can publicly identify as Islamic sympathizers in such numbers that our Muslim citizens feel safe. Perhaps women could wear beautiful silk scarves and men could wear Muslim style head coverings (there are many styles).
It would be an honor to wear a turban. You've inspired me! I'd love to be called a rag head to my face! It would be an honor. First I'd laugh, point at the medals on my chest and laugh some more.
Thank you for educating us on this Jersey. I will wear a Sunnah whenever I pray, at home AND at my church...Christian by the way. And if they don't like it, well, too bad I guess. I know this seems disingenuous or patronizing but what the heck, it makes a statement to the Islamophobes at church that someone needs to make. I'm volunteering.
Well gladly Rock! My "rants" seem hateful because they contradict your ignorance. Go to ANY Quaker church of your choice. There are several varieties of Quaker. I have been one all of my life as my ancestors have been since this religion began in England in the 1600's. You can even speak up there! The floor is always open to anyone moved by the spirit to speak in my community! Yes! Please visit our Christian community! Feel free to hate Quakers by the way. They can take it just fine.
Like so many Christian churches do? I'm a minister's son by the way and grew up in the church. I guess my father lost his job because he refused to be a Christian bigot. He has no regrets by the way. None of us do.
Hate? Oh, you mean when we changed from one branch of our community to another? Again, I have no clue what you mean when you say hate, unless it is my contempt for ignorance, even my own for which I work to remedy as I can.
Rather than let the terrorists within win this round, I think it would be better if the tax payers provided round the clock National Guard protection for the site. Actually, they SHOULD move to Ground Zero and have unfettered military protection if need be. Don't let the terrorist within win this one! Giving ground means they will never stop.
God bless them.
Yeah, mob rule is definitely the way to go. /sarcasm
That happened on September 11, 1973. The democratically elected president of Chile died that day. The Anaconda mining interests, the CIA and the president of the United States of America encouraged and enabled the vicious military take-over and the next two decades of tyranny.
I mourn for the 3,000 Americans killed in 2001. I mourn for the 20,000 Chileans killed in 1973. And I mourn for the roughly 7,000 people killed, on average, every single day of World War II, from its beginning on September 1, 1939 to its effective end on August 9, 1945.
Peace!
I wonder if the blowhards on AM hate radio care about the porno shop, the gay bar, and all the homeless people two blocks from ground zero? Probably they would if Glenn Beck told them to be afraid.
I say the same prayer for their safety when I put on my old journalist hat and, let the truth rip, much to the disgust of our villianaire greed and power addicted rulers. After all, truth interferes with and renders unsafe their absolute control (power) over us, and threatens the continuing flow into their bottomless pockets of their beloved billions.
COURAGE FIRST!
They will never be found because they were vaporized by the explosives which caused the mid-air pulverization of 90000 tons of concrete & metal decking. Watch the videos - the buildings turn to dust as they are falling.
What are you going to believe, the corporate rulers' conspiracy theory which defies physical laws or your own two eyes?
What have we done wrong? I volunteer, work, pay taxes, donate money to social causes, don't do drugs, have never been convicted of a crime, get along very well with my neighbours, who are extremely happy to have someone who keeps their yard and house pristine. As for my family in iraq, I lost many relatives in 1991 because of an american bomb, and lost my brother and his family to another american bomb. I ask for peace
For the last 10 years it seems more and more people think Islam not just al Qaeda, attacked the US on 9/11. Imam Feisal Rauf who wants to build a community center spoke out for peace. Clerics who have done less for peace than him in Afghanistan and Pakistan had their mosques attacked during worship services. Imaging being afraid of attack when every time one attended religious service. Imagine in Spain for years after the Madrid backpack bombing being afraid every time one commuted to and from work, not just on less frequent airplane trips like Americans do. Let’s dwell not only on the US attack but the other victims of bin Laden’s terror. Then we would stop blaming the Islam religion in general for the attack.
See,
http://readersupportednews.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3274
http://www.phillyimc.org/es/challenging-hate
When people say that the values of Isalm are compassion, tolerance, and freedom, I look at reality, at real cultures and governmants, and I see that it simply isan't so. People in the West swallow this sort of thing because they have learned not to examine the religions or culture of minoritiews too critically, for fear of being called racist."
No. I'm mindful of the fact that the wholesale subjugation of women is a global phenomena not at all specific to the Muslim world. Women in India and China and other Asian countries are treated no better for a multiple of reasons including very, very old religious ones. Me deluded? Is that how I sound? I had worked with Pakistani families, mostly Muslim, resettling here in America and their women did not wear burkhas and held professional occupations for the most part. Wherever quality education and a standard of living is higher than normally experienced in the third world, woman's rights are making huge gains. Pre-invasion Iraq had woman lawyers, judges, doctors and so forth, as Egypt and Jordan do now. You are deluded for believing in monolithic Islam. That's a lie.
It is not that terribly long ago that women were property of their husbands, that husbands were expected to treat their wives as we treat children now-days, that men were permitted to discipline their wives with any stick so long as it was not the width of his thumb (go look it up, the Rule of Thumb), and so on and so forth. Good grief, women's suffrage was a long and hard won battle that was only won a blink of an eye ago! This is something that Christianity is also guilty of, do you suggest we should treat Christians the way that Muslims are treated based on this excuse?
Does that you do not believe that some that is a Muslim can not come to the west and change what they learned before?
Read the Christian Bible. It teaches many things that we no longer do. Judge the person and their actions. If they are acting in ways that are against the laws in this country, treat them as criminals regardless of their religion.
If I were looking for converts I'd be more concerned about this. I'm not. I couldn't care less. The truth can speak for itself much better than I can. Invective is a matter of your perception more than mine in my opinion, but I could be wrong. I still am not going to waste any time on making "happy" in matters of certain interests of mine. I think being politically correct for the sake of assuaging people's feelings is a dishonest activity any way. Why bother?
Islam is the reason my father spent all his money on educating me, always treated me and my only brother equally in everything, Islam is why my brother would always respect me as his older sister and has always been pushing me to achieve more and more out of life. As I grew up I took an interest in History and later became a history teacher, and from history I learned how the women had no rights in the west until very recently, how their husbands “by law” could sell them if they ever needed the money! How they could never own land, homes or sign any binding contracts! And never inherit anything even if there was no one but them. While in Islam my birthright is mine and I can trade, work and own pretty much everything I want! A lot of non Muslims talk about Islam like they know better, its like trying to correct someone on their native language when you don’t speak it but have a translation book in your hands!
Relax. They have to put up with us and we have to put up with each other, like it or not. I think that's a little closer to the American way.
Enlighten us.
Quoting
I find it an abomination that the freedom to worship as one chooses, the spiritual being of their choosing, in the manner that they choose, without fear has been tossed out and that the actions of a few have been used as a tool of propaganda to sway the minds of many to propel a few to increased power. A community center that is being provided by a group that can help an area that is in sore need being blocked because of prejudice and bigotry, I find that an abomination. That this terrible wound-in the landscape of NYC as well as in the national psyche-has been allowed to sit open and festering, that is an abomination.
We have endured 9 years of total evil corruption and lies about 9/11. 8 years of war, 9 years of hate, and 9 years of unprecedented everything; from the weather to the economy.
All we seem to be able to do is sit and watch the shiny box. We proceed to vehemently bitch and moan about the phony-bunch-of-bullshit the media is creating about all of it and then we spend about 3 - 4 hours watching perfectly grown men run and throw. This last activity brings us great pleasure and sometimes, potato chips.
It's refreshing to be offered an opportunity to live with a higher consciousness than that and to give a little bit of respect and love to a community outside my own.
If this happened more often, planet earth would be a better place to live.
Thank you Michael Moore and Reader Supported News. Thank you very much.
one thing more: a vision: i see the imam, a priest, a rabbi, a
buddhist leader, a native american leader all standing at the
new mosque site, arms linked, saying: you cannot turn us against one another, we are one, this is an interfaith site, no one can divide us, God is One.
I don't suppose you- or anyone else for that matter- could explain to us how World Trade Center building 7 collapsed on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001.
Either it was: a) pre-rigged to implode like any other building that the owners plan to take down... or b) felt sympathetic to its WTC1 and WTC2 brethren and just decided to freefall into its own footprint, perhaps in an noble display of solidarity.
Your choice.
TeeVee media lies, and has a deep history of lying. Ask any Russian, German, Japanese, Chinese, Italian, Spanish, Mexican... or American.
Nope. You have forgotten that the fires in buildings 1 and 2 were started in the upper floors of both buildings. If you go to YouTube The Real Truth About the 9/11 attacks, you will see and hear the citizens at the scene describing the sounds of "explosions in the floors beneath us" BEFORE the buildings came down "in their own footprints," as could only have happened with the use of pre-planted explosives.
These had to have been planted during the several weeks BEFORE 9/11 when a Texan's brother was in charge of "security" at the WTC. Hear the building engineers describing the sounds of timed detonations in WTC's 1 and 2
Diagram 3.15 from the NIST report at:
http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist7.htm
shows WTC7 fell at FREE FALL speed between 1.75 seconds and 4 seconds into the collapse. This can ONLY occur if the resistance from the building below is ZERO - ie ALL support columns had been removed in under 2 seconds for AT LEAST 8 stories of the building! What can remove all the steel columns all at once? NIST has no answer. The only explanation possible is controlled demolition
The truth will set us free...if we let it. When will we open our eyes?
The buildings did not fall in a vacuum, therefore this "free fall" nonsense is just that; nonsense. Buildings DO fall "from the top down" when the upper support structures give way and massive amounts of debris fall downward onto the lower floors, thus causing their collapse as well. "photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view."
This site does a wonderful job of debunking all the crazy conspiracy stories. http://www.jod911.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf
The most compelling evidence against some sort of conspiracy is pure common sense: that no one can keep their mouth shut. It would have taken thousands of hours to rig those buildings, and many individuals to do so. There is no way so many people could be involved and no one spills the beans. Not in our current "15 minutes of Fame" culture.
Except the huge void filling the cranial cavities of conspiracy theorists.
And you are correct. The doubters don't matter because no matter how many investigations, no matter how many explanations, there will be some loon with a "degree" that will seize upon some tiny awkward phrase or wording and claim another cover-up.
Oh well. Truth isn't a popularity contest any way.
These Christian hypocrites should go on record as being un-American, non-Americans, traitors to everything democracy stands for and the scum of planet Earth!
Only in America, folks!
Actually, this practice was common among many principled people in his time. Part of the reason that freedom was delayed was a perhaps misguided notion that keeping them for that time ensured that they'd have a place to live and a certain degree of security. At the time, a freed slave with nowhere to go was extremely vulnerable to being retaken as a slave. Also, many of the founding fathers hoped that the institution of slavery would end in the then very near future any way. That Washington was a man of his time does not dilute the truths he articulated one bit.
What a good idea Jyll! Excellent in fact! A truly inspired thought!
As an admirer of and avid reader of philosophy I'd like to know whom you are addressing. Michael Moore? If so, I would hope he would take you on. I'm just curious to know what you think the antithesis for his general position happens to be? As well, what do you imagine his thesis to be? It would be interesting to know.
Who, or what, are you talking about, or referring to?
http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/20100825053912401
I'm also struck by the ratio of 60 over 2,752, which is the number of Muslims believed to have died on 9/11, out of the total; over 1 in 50. Are they too, not the REAL victims, as well as the innocent men, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and others, who were murdered in post 9/11 hate-backlash.
I just returned from Berlin and Prague where I saw so much evidence of the terrible destruction of war and hatred, and so much contrition and atonement once people recognized the awful toll their hatred caused. I wish these lessons learned could be bottled and everyone here could take a bitter sip of this cup of knowledge. Once mobs are created and stirred up, they take on lives of their own, and they cannot be called back.
You are right on Michael. If ever there was a need for a sane voice it is now.
A priest sat down next to me as I was having a meal in the tent that was set up for us workers. I told him not to peddle his religion at me. I told him that what I see and smell around us is the outcome of a few people who believed that they were obeying the will of their god.
Were not some Christians dutifully obeying the will of their god during that period of genocide known as the Crusades?
I have no patience for religions and the ignorance they foster. Spare me your platitudes and your pity...
I believe in a higher entity than man, not in the traditions and pontifications of men. The best shrine would be a park for all people. Nothing religious at all. A non-sectarian place of meditation.
I totally agree with you and hope we can take back what makes America great.
built for the victims. It is for those who celebrated and burned the American Flag when 9/11 happened. Its nonsenseto say this is prejudice not to want to be
reminded everyday of their loved ones they lost. Its so easy to beat your chest
and say "this is America". It won't be
long if we continue to run away from the
truth.
Gee Carolynn, I don't recall a single American Muslim or Muslim foreigner in America burning any flags at all. I do recall an Egyptian Muslim store owner being murdered shortly after for the crime of being Muslim. Islam did not cause 9/11...a bunch of lunatics who happened to be Muslim did. Our response to date has been to emulate terrorism in every way imaginable by killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims since then calling them collateral damage. You have a convenient conscience, an immorally selective one.
Well, I must be on a bunch of the wrong kinds of lists out there but I appreciate that I am not alone. "They" may "win" God knows what of me, but they'll never win our hearts and minds. Let's not go quietly Jyll. You keep on speaking too.
I have no way of knowing the percentage of Muslims in the world who have celebrated 911. I saw on TV that some did. I saw many that did not, and I do mean Muslims in other countries. We received condolences from many. I have traveled extensively and know many Muslims, American and foreign, and those who DO celebrate it certainly exist but I have never noticed a generally positive sentiment in favor of 911 among the Muslims I have known and following popular middle east media, have never heard of anything indicating that most Muslims favored 911. Only in American media have I ever heard the suggestion. Many think we may have brought this on ourselves, but I hear that from as many non-Muslims as well.
And what about those freaks of the Westboro Baptist Church who carry signs thanking God for 9/11 and celebrate 9/11 on a regular basis? Shall we call all Baptists terrorists, also?
This COMMUNITY CENTER, in my opinion, is being built to improve the surrounding community and provide a sorely needed service to that area. The only ones "beating their chests" are the ones taking what is a NON-ISSUE and pumping a lot of hot air into it to make it into an issue that will further divide our country so that they can gain more political power.
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Our Bill of Rights guarantees all Americans the freedom of religion. Any statement and/or action opposed to this RIGHT is un-American at it's core.
(so I donated to the Cordoba Initiative as well....)
Who were the "other guys?" The 9/11 Commission Report was no more truthful than was the Warren Commission Report about who the real, multiple shooters were who stood in many places except the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository at the SE corner!
What I'd like to know is what happened to the Burlington coat factory? Why did it move. Where the jobs outsourced or did they move to another US location?
Also who is the current owner of the WTC, did Larry Silverstien retain ownership after receiving the billions in insurance. If I remember correctly Larry purchased the property about two months before the event and had them insured against terrorist attacks. The buildings were full of asbestos that required about 200 million to remove, why would anyone want these structures?
BRILLIANT observation! Larry now owns the Sears Tower (which I believe has been renamed) in Chicago - since 9/11 the tallest building in North America. I know that just hedging my bets on the side of safety, I would not be a tenant there!
the difficulty is in telling INTOLERANT (ISLAMIC STATES) NATIONS (that allow no other religions than Islam) to be TOLERANT.
Well, bid, the nobility of our tolerance has nothing at all to do with the intolerance of others. Since you mention Islamic states (MOST middle eastern states are not, by the way...as far as I can recall off hand, Mullahs leading only Iran along with the military and the rest being military, royal or other secular tyrants) I am aware of many Christian communities in that part of the world. In fact, OUR intolerance is an actual threat to their safety because WE are so widely INCORRECTLY perceived as a Christian state, which, by the way, we are NOT...by law.
Uh...we really don't have any business telling any other state to be tolerant really, sovereignty being what it is and all.
We SHOULD be distinguished for our tolerance. We are the USA, right?
Sorry to say Too Sad, but you are historically incorrect. Jefferson, Washington, Franklin and many others were deists, not Christians. Washington went to church in order to take his wife who was, but he declined to stay for communion leaving after the sermon to wait outside. Don't take my word for it. Where churches existed, attendance of regular worshipers was small in terms of the percentage of the population. And since the early settlers saw the indians as savages, genocide was made easier. We should be better by now, right?
What you call Intolerant Islamic States have suffered exactly the same mistrust and paranoia that we now display although they may good reason given our interference in Iran to the tools of convenience we militarized and armed in Afghanistan/Pakistan to do our bidding when their ideology was convenient for us are lessons in the lies and deceit we've propagated for our own opportunism. If anything, Islam -much like any other moral, righteous code serving truth, love and goodwill for all mankind- would not, does not, tolerate lies, bigotry and hypocrisy. Perhaps its that admirable refusal to negotiate or bend on such matters that doesn't sit well with our own negotiable selves-capable and educated in the artful. Let us come together under one roof and do away with the impasse.
I pray for your and our peace June. In disagreement with you please don't think of me as an enemy. There has to be a common ground here or in the end we lose the best of what it means to be an American. Thank you.
Yeah, like so many Christian churches too.
Then perhaps you were not the Jason I was responding to maybe? I don't know. And I don't have a quarrel with what you're saying here. As for spinning peoples comments, I can only comment on what I am comprehending. If I am in error I welcome correction. I won't pretend to be always right, all knowing or anything like that. Not even the strength of my convictions make them right. I don't exempt myself from my standards. Perhaps you'd like to correct me somehow. I'd appreciate it.
Telling isn't it, that he might be as afraid of people in his own religion as you are of his. I know lot's of scary Christians too, especially one's that demonize American Muslims and making Islamophobia respectable. Frankly I agree with him. If he doesn't build it because of the Islamophobes, the Muslims of third world countries might conclude that our war on Iraq and Afghanistan is actually a war on Islam, which even George Bush said it wasn't. If we were to make this suspicion seem real by denying the New York Muslims their Constitutional rights, that would indeed be begging for a fight. What else can we do to empower bin Laden? Any suggestions?
Well, I would like to start with Billy Grahams son, but I think it would be more interesting if you could name any prominant, mainstream fundamentalist Christian leaders that have not. I bet you can't name one that has ever come out and said "Our Muslim brothers and sisters deserve to be respected as God's children, just as we are." Name one who would dare? I rest my case. (I'd love to be proved wrong on this one. Please do so.)
...and probably no better either. Frankly, if religion itself keeps doing as good a job as it has promoting hate, then maybe we should give up on religion altogether. The atheists will like that for sure. Ironically, the Christian principle of love above all things, which most Christians fail at miserably, renders Christians as a people no better than anyone else. As members of humanity, I wouldn't think any group were any better than any other.
Thank you
Christianity is based in humility and respects all religions. This attitude is not only the way that Jesus Christ asked us to follow, but also a mischief that puts thousands of believers life into a great danger.
This simply is ridiculous!
I would not want to live in a country that the government told use we could not have these rights. I support both the NRA's right, and the Right to build the Community Center. But...... I would protest both, and I would try to put economic and community pressure on these either of these to stop them. It is my right. These are both painful events and they hurt our country more than they heal it. They are both in poor taste.
Both the NRA and a Mosque can be built next to me. But why hurt people unnecessarily in spots that rub the victims face in it?
BTW McVeigh was an Agnostic when he committed the Oklahoma City Bombing. Google it.
Sorry. The Sufi's didn't do it.
Sound familiar? Of course they can build a mosque but 2 blocks is too close and for that matter so is Tennessee and so is California but Saudi Arabia would be fine.
Thanks Michael for your piece and for appearing on CNN.
Only one who "witnessed" had his explanation within minutes of the "terrorist attacks." How did he know?
What about the YouTube films that show ordinary citizens telling about what "looked like a cruise missile came right past and overhead. Then, it dropped down and hit the Pentagon right there."
Another, a newsman who said the "first plane that he saw come in, flew very low. It had NO windows. It had a round, circular blue and white logo on the nose."
You bet. A post Christian religion that grew in third world countries first that happened to maintain ancient standards with regard to women that has been slow to evolve but in some sectors has done quite well...a religion that is still evolving and who knows, might actually broaden it's views, but of course for the extreme fundamentalists . Sounds like a bunch of Christian fundamentalists to me.
As a young Muslim woman I don't agree that Islam itself is to blame for the misogynistic culture that has come to be associated with it. The patriarchal cultures of the societies in which Islam is most widely followed are the culprits, and rightly so, because the practice of the religion has been grossly subverted over hundreds of years by those in power - mostly men, of course. Islam, incidentally, gives women a lot of legal (and other) rights that western women had to fight for as late as the early 20th century. I for one, would never accept a religion that places me in the category of a second-class citizen... and my religion doesn't.
Thank Goddess that we have, here in America, the right to choose what church we will step into and what Deity we will worship. If you don't like Islam, or Christianity, or Buddhism, or... you can go somewhere else, but if your chosen religion does it for you, then you have the right to practice the religion that you so choose!
Yes, and if Saudi Arabia were a democracy with a Constitution seperating church and state, you can bloody well bet that it would be built. By the way, the Muslim influence on Cordoba was positive in substantial ways. The Christian and Jewish community thrived while this city was occupied. Or so I've read accounts of. Shall we all go to the library and check? Let's!
Methinks that Saudi Arabia does not have the religious freedoms that America says she has.
you said it all..thank you for being rational and not just following the crowd.
i appreciated your act against W Bush for bombing Iraq under the name of terror just to get oil as you showed in Fahrenheit 9/11.. i now thank you so much for this.
regards,
Hossam Mohamed Hassanein
What an enormous sign of love and respect he could show, what an enormous example of the power of faith could come from such a gesture.
Since this has become such a national issue, he has the opportunity to display the amazing character of true Muslims to all America, and the world.
Imagine what that would do for Muslim acceptance in America.
Very well said.
I wish everyone understood this.
Terrorists don't have a religion.They hijacked our religion and our rights to live freely.
Thanks for all your support.
I hope we do the right thing!
2- Another thought (I happen to be an Arab Palestinian Christian): If extremists in certain Arab countries emulate the US racists by banning synagogues or churches anywhere close to "Hallowed sites" where Israel or the US have slaughtered thousands, or hundreds of thousands of people, then they would run out of non-contaminated space very quickly.
Oh, I see. So we should be like that too. Gotta' love logic like that. Let's all immitate bigotry so we can get even. Real sensible, huh.
OK.
Now if you are a Muslim (or anyone) who has supported this article, your first thought should be- some idiots have stolen Jewish religion, let's return their religion to them by building synagogues at the Mecca site. If that's not what you thought, you are just a hypocrite. [We're not talking about religious freedom in any country, we're just thinking about your thinking]
To the Muslims who have posted here claiming that Islam is all peaceful, you are only referring to one of the three books of your faith. You will not convince me that Islam is a peaceful religion but I will agree that the Koran is not the only holy book filled with violence. This is not saying that there are not millions of good, peace loving Muslims.
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