Kreig writes: "President-Elect Obama's advisors feared in 2008 that authorities would revolt and that Republicans would block his policy agenda if he prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a law school dean who served as one of Obama's top transition advisers."
Presidents Obama and Bush embrace on Inauguration Day as Vice President Cheney looks on, 01/20/09. (photo: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
Obama Team Feared Coup If He Prosecuted
War Crimes
09 September 11
resident-Elect Obama's advisors feared in 2008 that authorities would revolt and that Republicans would block his policy agenda if he prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a law school dean who served as one of Obama's top transition advisers.
University of California at Berkeley Law School Dean Christopher Edley, Jr., ... the sixth highest-ranking member of the 2008 post-election transition team preparing Obama's administration, revealed the team's thinking on Sept. 2 in moderating a forum on 9/11 held by his law school (also known as Boalt Hall). Edley sought to justify Obama's "look forward" policy on Bush-era lawbreaking that the president-elect announced on a TV talk show in January 2009.
But Edley's rationale implies that Obama and his team fear the military/national security forces that he is supposed be commanding. It suggests also that Republicans have intimidated him right from the start of his presidency even though voters in 2008 rejected Republicans by the largest combined presidential-congressional mandate in recent U.S. history. Edley responded to our request for additional information by providing a description of the transition team's fears, which we present below as an exclusive email interview. Among his important points is that transition officials, not Obama, agreed that he faced the possibility of a "revolt."
Overview
As the nation approaches the third anniversary of Obama's election, many of his proposals have been thwarted by Republicans in Congress despite his cave-in on a wide variety of justice issues. His poll numbers have rapidly dropped this year, including results reported Sept. 6 by two polls putting his approval rating at 43 percent. To top it off, former Vice President Dick Cheney, who left office with a 13% approval rating in one national poll, is now staging a comeback. Cheney's return to the public arena includes his boasts during his book tour about the supposed legality of his never-investigated Bush-era initiatives. These have long been suspected as criminal under U.S. and international law, with potential execution for violators.
Longtime peace advocate Susan Harman, a Californian, elicited Edley's opinions during Q&A at the Boalt Hall forum, which was organized by the school's Miller Institute for Global Challenges and the Law. Boalt Hall's faculty includes Professor John C. Yoo. The former Justice Department attorney is nicknamed by war crimes critics as the "torture memo lawyer" for his legal justifications for interrogation techniques for those suspected of terror. Also, Harman believed last week that Yoo advised the Miller Institute based on a still current listing on Boalt Hall's website. But Edley responds that he co-directs the institute with no special status for Yoo. Edley is a former White House aide and otherwise a major player at high levels in legal and political circles. He was so high-ranking on the transition team that Janet Napolitano, Arizona's governor and now Homeland Security secretary, was listed six spots below him.
After the forum, Harman described the prepared remarks by Boalt Hall speakers calling for accountability, human rights and the rule of law as being so "surreal" in such circumstances that, "I felt dizzy, and could barely speak" during Q&A.
But she did ask questions. Edley responded that Obama's team feared that leadership in the U.S. armed forces, the CIA and NSA might "revolt" if the new Obama administration prosecuted war crimes by U.S. authorities and lower-ranking personnel. Also, Edley told Harman that his fellow decision-makers on Obama's team feared that a prosecution inquiry could lead to Republican efforts to thwart the Obama agenda in Congress.
Harman shared this account by email and Google Groups with our Justice Integrity Project and others. Among recipients was David Swanson, an antiwar activist who since last January has been organizing a grassroots effort to replace Obama on the Democratic 2012 ticket. Swanson published, Insider Tells Why Obama Chose Not to Prosecute Torture, the only such blog or news report I've found of Edley's explanation of how Obama decided justice issues. Swanson's blog recalled that accountability under the law was a top concern of Obama supporters, as illustrated by the incoming administration's own 2008 poll of supporter suggestions. Here is Swanson's description of the Obama transition:
They had questions from ordinary people for the President Elect submitted on their website and voted up or down. The top question at the end of the voting had come from Bob Fertik of Democrats.com and it was this: "Will you appoint a Special Prosecutor - ideally Patrick Fitzgerald - to independently investigate the gravest crimes of the Bush Administration, including torture and warrantless wiretapping?"
Not only was the answer no, but it had to be inferred because President Change U. Wish refused to answer the question. I've always assumed I could guess why: a president wouldn't want previous presidents subject to the rule of law, because then he would be too. Just this week I was suggesting that allowing the Justice Department to enforce laws against Cheney could save Obama's electoral prospects at the risk of seeing Obama, too, land in prison some day. I have no doubt that this really is a factor. However, we now have an account from someone involved in the decision process way back when.
In similar fashion, I published on Huffington Post an Inauguration Day scoop: Why the President 'Stepped Out' During His Inaugural Parade. The front-page column extolled the new president's "ability to mix action with powerful symbolism" as he emerged from his limo to walk on foot and thereby honor national traditions exemplified by the National Archives, Navy Memorial and Justice Department....
But that hopeful start gave way to a warning and then scandal. My next Huffington Post column, Probe the Past to Protect the Future, argued for the new administration and Congress to protect the nation's legal traditions by investigating suspected law-breaking under the Bush administration. That set the stage for an investigative report on how the Bush Justice Department framed Don Siegelman, the Democratic former governor of Alabama, on corruption charges with the connivance of the federal trial judge: Siegelman Deserves New Trial Because of Judge's 'Grudge', Evidence Shows.... $300 Million in Bush Military Contracts Awarded to Judge's Private Company. The Obama Justice Department has abetted the frame-up every step of the way, creating a huge mystery about its motives and alarming former Obama supporters across the nation.
Justice Accountability As 2012 Campaign Issue
Since then, justice and accountability issues have become important wedge-issues (along with jobs, the economy, war policies and environment) in dividing Democratic factions. To take one example, more than 1,200 environmental protesters against Obama policies have recently been arrested outside the White House. That's the forerunner of much larger protest demonstrations planned during the next two months near the White House on a variety of issues. Congressional Black Caucus leader and former House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers (D-Michigan) has encouraged those seeking to protect Social Security and Medicare to aim their protests at the Obama White House since, in his view, they are the prime actors in setting the scene for bipartisan agreement on cuts.
The issue of accountability for Bush-era lawbreaking resonates especially strongly in some quarters, with crossover appeal beyond party lines. The above-mentioned question in 2008 by Bob Fertik received some 22,000 votes on the Obama transition website, some 3,000 more than the next highest vote-getter in the Obama team's poll.
Similarly, a list-serve run by Alabama Democrat Pam Miles that reaches tens of thousands of Democratic voters around the nation was abuzz last weekend with grassroots opposition to Obama on a variety of issues. Miles is a tireless advocate for Democratic causes and candidates. She started her list because of the Bush frame-up on corruption charges of her state's most recent Democratic governor, Don Siegelman. One reader is the intrepid Alabama blogger Roger Shuler, who last week posted on his Legal Schnauzer site a citizen's guide to self-protection from anonymous threats of the kind frequently sent his way. Shuler's near-daily investigative commentaries include scores about the imprisonment of Mississippi trial attorney and Democratic donor Paul Minor on corruption charges, a victim of a cruel, Siegelman-style frame-up by the Bush administration. Over the weekend, Shuler posted this comment about the Obama administration's reaction to the many injustices in the legal system that Shuler has chronicled in the Deep South:
Obama's first betrayal came before he even took office, when he said he would "look forward, not backwards" on Bush-era crimes. That meant he was going to sell out the victims of torture and political prosecutions, the U.S. attorneys who were unlawfully fired, and so on. He's been selling out ever since. One of our political parties must believe in the rule of law; Republicans obviously do not, so it's up to Democrats.
Obama should be forced out and replaced with a Democrat who believes in the 14th Amendment protections of due process and equal protection. The erosion of those protections is what led to the Siegelman and Minor cases. Obama's refusal to examine such abuses indicates he is not fit to be president. He took an oath to uphold the constitution - and he has not done it from day one. I, for one, will not go to the polls in November 2012 if he is the Democratic nominee and there is no viable third-party option.
As a reaction to such comments, some of the Miles list-serve readers continue to post pro-Obama comments and denounce the president's critics as fools and ingrates. Another reaction was by Steve Walker, the Democratic National Committee Southern Regional Coordinator for the Obama re-election effort: He bluntly demanded this weekend that Miles remove him from her distribution list, saying he was not interested in postings by those who believe Obama has failed. She promptly complied and sent an apology, explaining that she was under the impression that he'd asked to be included. Loyal also to her readers, she posted the correspondence as a news item. That enables bloggers and Democratic grassroots sympathizers around the nation to observe first-hand how the Obama re-election campaign, like most such efforts, apparently relies on top-down messaging to voters, with scant interest in meaningful feedback.
Summing Up
With this context, last Friday's Boalt Hall forum provides important new insight on why the White House and Justice Department have, in effect, ignored countless news reports and what must be hundreds of thousands of reader phone calls, letters and emails seeking accountability for Bush-era injustices.
As a routine precaution, our non-partisan Justice Integrity Project wrote Edley to confirm Susan Harman's quotations, which he did.... Also, we invited Edley, Yoo and the DNC's Walker to provide any further comment. An addendum below includes the comments we have received. For now, read Harman's account below of her comments during the audience Q&A segment at Boalt Hall's forum Sept. 2:
I said was overwhelmed by the surreality of Yoo being on the law faculty.... when he was singlehandedly responsible for the three worst policies of the Bush Adm. They all burbled about academic freedom and the McCarthy era, and said it isn't their job to prosecute him. Duh.
Then Dean Chris Edley volunteered that he'd been party to very high level discussions during Obama's transition about prosecuting the criminals. He said they decided against it. I asked why. Two reasons: 1) it was thought that the CIA, NSA, and military would revolt, and 2) it was thought the Repugnants would retaliate by blocking every piece of legislation they tried to move (which, of course, they've done anyhow).
Afterwards I told him that CIA friends confirmed that Obama would have been in danger, but I added that he bent over backwards to protect the criminals, and gave as an example the DoJ's defense (state secrets) of Jeppesen (the rendition arm of Boeing) a few days after his inauguration. He shrugged and said they will never be prosecuted, and that sometimes politics trumps rule of law.
"It must not," I said.
"It shouldn't," he said, and walked off.
This is the Dean of the Berkeley School of Law.
The Justice Integrity Project is a research and education initiative established in 2010 by concerned citizens to improve oversight of abusive prosecutorial and judicial decisions in the federal justice system.
|
THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community. |











Comments
We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the moderation.
General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity.
Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.
- The RSN Team
LOL! Yeah, uh, God forbid they did that, huh? Oh wait, they did anyway. Doh!
Twit-party astro-turf doesn't count.
Elections DO matter. The trouble is that we have to pick leaders willing to stand up and be counted.
The only kind of "revolution" liberals have at our disposal is the refusal to work. Sit-ins, walk-outs, and crap like that. Then again, that won't work either, unless everyone does it.
EVERYONE IS FED UP. We MUST REVOLT in some MAJOR FASHION or the U.S. is DEAD.
Don't waste your time trying to tell me how horrible I am for having all those dirty-bad-nasty guns, or how wonderful it would be if I gave them all to our fine policemen so they can better protect me.
I have no illusions concerning law enforcement, and I'll die on my feet, before I live on my knees!
If not, then, on behalf of the gun lobby and the gun industry, I'd like to thank you for increasing their profit margin.
She has a history too.
Nevertheless, they both understood the overall agenda of the most powerful in the country and carried on through them. Bill signed NAFTA, after all, and accumulated national wealth that George W. utilized for his attacks on the Middle East. They both are joined at the hip with AIPAC. Bill bombed Iraq. Bill bombed Somalia. Bill bombed the Balkans.
Read the PNAC and you will see the beginnings of what we have today, and that Bill and Hillary opened the back door for both Bush and Obama to carry on.
There is little in the news about the projects Obama is carrying on with, such as the military bases in Colombia. Now we are hearing that NASA (not the old NASA but the new and improved militaristic NASA) is going to drill the moon and sent a warhead into it last year for god knows what reason.
Don't trust anybody in government. ANYBODY.
Obama wasn't elected to be "Chief Harry Reid Impersonator". He was elected by people ready for a fight, because they thought he was too.
I think Obama was ready for a fight, he just wasn't ready to be a martyr. As shrub would have said, he misunderestimat ed the opposition, and when he found out what he was really facing, it became, as Peter Townsend so fittingly wrote, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." We've just got to figure out how we won't get fooled again...
When a Democrat is in the White House (ESPECIALLY when he's part black), there are thousands of repuglicans who want to kill him, and will actually do it if given half a chance.
If Obama didn't know what he was up against, maybe he should have taken U.S. history when he was in the 6th grade. Maybe he should have been paying attention to what's been going on over the past five or six decades.
How can he be so naïve and "brilliant" at the same time?
Not to forget that it would have been politically impossible for an American president, then or now, to support a side that was made up of anarchists and communists, as the Spanish Republicans were then. Only a minority of Americans supported the Lincoln brigades against the Fascist Franco and his ally Germany, which sent the Condor brigades to aid him, not to mention the bombing of Guernica! How many here now stand against our wars? On this day of all days, we should question the "Official History"
That is incredibly well written. If you haven' already, you should write books.
I believe that Hitler fully expected the Allies of Poland (mainly Britain and France) to attack him while he was busy conquering Poland, but instead the overarching fear of another bloody trench war kept the Allies in their defensive positions. The Allies greatly outnumbered the German defensive forces in their Siegfried Line defenses, but just waited out the demise of Poland, hence the term "Sitzkrieg" was born on the western front. Unfortunately, the Allies' complacency caused them to underestimate the build-up of German forces in the west once Poland was conquered and to ignore or misunderstand the new German Blitzkrieg tactics of highly mobile and attack-point concentrated warfare.
Churchill despised Hitler and would have called his bluff, even if it meant going to a war more or less unprepared.
Maybe there needs to be a coup, but not by the people/groups stated in this article. I think that's why the truth about 9/11 has never really been sought... the Fed. Govt., no matter of which party is in charge, is too afraid of a real revolution, especially now when the nations of North Africa are showing that it actually can be done.
The only person I can think of who could pull off an ANTI-military coup would be Gandhi. He's gone now, and any modern Gandhi had better at least own his own tv network.
Are you suggesting Gore? While I do wonder how different things would be now if he had paid off the Supremes, I don't think he's got either the will or the cojones to do it now. Maybe we can just split off to the United Coasts of America (Eastern and Western sides) and let Texas burn and the central states get blown away due to the global climate change that is just part of nature. Interesting how Texas is now crying for that Federal help they want to eliminate from the budget... sorry for the cynicism, but sometimes I just can't help it.
About texas, Hell is HOT! What do you expect?
And you're absolutely right! NO federal disaster aid for red states! ESPECIALLY the home of ron paul, who doesn't even BELIEVE in disaster aid. Let texas "pull itself up by its bootstraps"!
Well, clearly we were wrong. Obama bent over backward to "keep the peace" with these crooks and vandals -- and thus fell into their trap. They consider any kind of human consideration a "weakness" -- and in dealing with them, they are right.
Two facts stand out, here: Obama is now spider-bitten and worthless and needs to withdraw. AND -- America, as a people, needs to DEMAND justice for Bush, Cheney and that whole maggot-infested pile that was the Bush administration. This country will never recover from the back-stabbing it has suffered, until the sword is forcibly removed from the wound. Let us demand Justice NOW.
For I, and a small crew of like-minded
D.C. area residents sold $17,000 of our
"Impeach Him" buttons during the years
2006-2008. The D.C. elite just didn't
believe the polls that appeared in 2005,
when a slim majority of USAns wanted #43
impeached.
We used our button profits to buy yard
signs "Impeach Him". We later put stickers:
"Them Both" on one side of the signs.
We had hundreds of takers. To see pictures
of the signs, in an amusing video, look at
www.waifllc.org/kensington
Best wishes,
Alan McConnell, in Silver Spring MD
Whether Obama's fears were justified or not.... IT DOES NOT LET HIM OFF THE HOOK. It just shows that Obama will NOT FIGHT for what is Right... It shows OBAMA IS A MORAL COWARD. P.S....I campaigned for Obama for over 2 YEARS.
Have it, read it... you are sadly correct sir, sadly correct. I wish Eisenhower would have said what he did in his farewell speech four years before in perhaps the State of the Union following his reelection, but then Nixon would have been President 12 years earlier.
Dr. King, while a great man, would never survive long enough today, it's actually amazing he lived as long as he did... we need Iron Man, literally, otherwise they'll have a terrible accident when they become dangerous and refuse to sign off.
Giving them a pass was the last straw. I unassed, hit the streets in protest, have always written letters to the editor etal now am spreading the word we gotta take our country back. Study history (most folks are historically ignorant) we are at the edge. The bananna republic of USA is being born. STOP IT OR BE A SURF.
October 2011 (6th) is a start- I heard rumblings of 17SEP11 occupation of Wall St. OK folks sheer numbers turning out in non violent protest is a start. We need uncorrupted candidates for local, state and federal office. WE GOT TO HAVE ELECTION REFORM - this system is too easily gamed by power & wealth. My soapbox is sagging, ponder the above.
Dither, dither, good friends. Will NO ONE come to our rescue? The total gross-out fact is that our country, as even the most outraged seem to see it, is hopelessly at the mercy of the excrement of the universe. WhatEVER shall we do?
It appears that if we are to have a savior, guess who it will have to be?
Just like in 1776. You and me.
"You must be the change you want.", Gandhi
The most comical quote of his presidency will always be, when he pleaded with repugs "not to call his bluff"...
STOP BLUFFING!
You can bet a repug would rather fight than cower if he thought he had something on his Democratic predecessor.
The transition is over. The current military establishment was HAND-PICKED by Obama himself. He has NO excuses. I'm sorry.
If he's worried, what about people like Bradley MANning? What about people who take the oath to uphold THE CONSTITUTION seriously? Maybe Manning would be MAN enough to be President, if only Obama hadn't put him in jail for having the courage Obama lacks.
Is this plausible?
Well, suppose you are elected president, and the outgoing president whispers a threat in your ear.
What could you try to do?
Can you tell your wife? Can you talk to other world leaders?
Could you talk to the famous scientists and opera singers that come by the White House?
Or maybe, for example, you could talk to Julian Assange? Or Bernie Sanders?
You have more resources available, i think than Malcolm X or Che Guevara or Fidel Castro --- and Castro managed to stand up to the neighbourhood bully for decades.
I think there's another theory of Obama's behaviour that fits the same facts.
That is that he genuinely believes like Senator Diane Feinstein, like Madeleine Albright, like Bill Clinton, like Hillary Clinton, and others, that the crusades against the Moslems and Arabs are so righteous and so good that it justifies ignoring the crimes Cheney committed.
Maybe Obama is just one of them.
So is there an App for that? Seriously-the book 7 Days in May had almost exactly that plot-and many another since. Given the recent history of this country, it is quite likely. 911, 94: small plane crash on WH lawn beneath Clinton's bedroom, 1:49 AM; just this April18 & 22, two 'near misses' in one week of Michel Obama's plane by military C105 Cargo planes-what are the odds, Mr. Spock-the probability, Mr. Data? I would say this threatened 'coup' vector for interpreting Obama's performance as a popularly elected president with a majority in both houses has a vector probability of 3 to 1.
1. How does all this fit in with the lack of birth certificate of alleged defacto President Obama? Isn't everything he's done moot?
2. It appears that the above article is saying that since the "leadership in the U.S. armed forces, the CIA and NSA might "revolt"" if prosecuted, then the "leadership in the U.S. armed forces, the CIA and NSA" are holding the USA hostage and rule of law is thwarted by them. Do I hear someone saying too big to prosecute?
3. If the big boys are not going to be prosecuted, but us little boys who commit some minor infraction are, isn't this article going to eventually provoke civil unrest? And the blame for this unrest laying squarely upon the shoulders of past presidents?
This is getting too scary for me. No wonder people are fleeing the USA.
4. Or is this just a propaganda article designed to incite Obama's defeat in the primaries?
Spin doesn't work against hard reality. And spin is all the fascists have.
Admittedly, I thought that the election of Obama was a bigger step in the right direction. Now we have to decide if it is possible to rally around a viable alternative such as Denise Kucinich (I doubt there is) or try to build a movement despite having to support Obama in 2012. To continue to whine about Obama while a neofascist Republican becomes President is the worst thing we can do.
See "theKoch's keystone clique exposed" on this site.
It is sad, but I think ANY DEMOCRATIC president would be killed if he went up against the hidden forces in the country.
The republicans are not in danger for they LOVE WAR.
I also felt that the ALL the republicans, not JUST the military and cia would revolt if a special prosecutor was set to investigate the Bush regime.
I sure understood why Obama didn't want to go for it.
Are your memories SO BAD that you can't remember what a dangerous situation we were in???? We were on the brink of total financial collapse when Obama entered the White House.
THAT CERTAINLY WAS NOT THE TIME TO ADD A REPUBLICAN--DEMOCRATIC CIVIL WAR
That would sure have brought the country DOWN
The right murdered Kennedy and have slowly moved toward taking over the entire country, since then.
So which is better? For Obama and the American people to stand up for democracy, as many other dictatorships have recently done, or to allow ourselves to slowly be taken over, as Germany was by the NAZI's?
I sure think we have to do what we can and fight the right. I only think we do need to remember what Obama walked into.
And I AM convinced that ALL the republicans would have revolted.
And it is ALSO important to realize that
As jubilant as the million or so at the inauguration was........ABOUT 50% DID NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA.
I have a feeling that if he gets a second term he will fight hard, for there is nothing to loose.......at least
I hope so.
I repeat. Is it better to passively allow them to take over the entire country, kill millions in wars, destroy millions of lives through loss of jobs, homes and retirement, as well as funding for programs to help people cope with the economy brought about by the right?
Is it better to sit back and allow them to dumb down, destroy, and remove funding for public education?
Is it better to sit back and allow them to do away with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid while they funnel the country's wealth into the pockets of the rich and to corporations that hide record profits to avoid paying taxes, outsource all the jobs and pay the lowest taxes in decades -- some are paying NO TAXES??
Is it better to sit back and allow them to strip every gain made over the past 60 years for women, women's reproductive health, for African-Americans, gays, etc.
I guess it depends on the kind of world we want to live in.
Being ruled by sociopaths is not what I would choose.
I like Isaac Asimov as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I want to wait a thousand years to fix a problem, simply because I thought it was easier than taking head on when it could have been fixed more efficiently.
Obama sucks. Repugs are worse. Until someone runs AGAINST Obama, I'm voting for him, because I'm stuck with him. I'll gladly do anything possible to help someone like Howard Dean primary him. The problem is that no one has shown any interest in doing that, and if any potential challengers don't move fast, they'll risk being called out as "johnny-come-latelies who aren't taking the job they want seriously".
My Dad told me a story about the the words "Theoretically" and "Realistically" when I was but a mere wisp of a lad. It went like this:
One day a boy went to his father and said "Father, what is the difference between theoretically, and realistically?".
"Go ask your mother, and your sister if they would have sex for a stranger for 1 million dollars,", said the father, "and I will explain it when you get back".
"They both said yes," said the boy.
"So there you have it!" said the father "Theoretically we have 2 million dollars! Realistically, we're living with a couple of whores!"
You're right. It's just a theory. Then again, do you think the Dark Ages helped?
Think of where we could be if The Library of Alexandria hadn't been destroyed by a bunch of Religious Fanatics, or we actually knew how The Egyptians had built the Pyramids!
I was just sharing a joke my Dad told me when I was a kid. My father was one of those old timers that always had an amusing anecdote with a moral at the end that he would share with us kids. The one about "Theoretically", and "Realistically" was one of my favorites. I thought I would share it.
I've oft thought that anybody who wantonly took on what the Bush-Shites left behind was either power-drunk, nuts, complicit or threatened already-and I suspected the latter in Ob's case.
Actions contrary to his promises are the proof, and it's becoming more and more obvious daily in a time when most of the Bush Cabal can not visit too many countries, and these may be asking why their "homeland" doesn't treat them as they deserve?!
I feel awful for Obama, I think at heart, a decent man who has run smack-splat into the REAL power structure, every bit as intractable as the worst of the "Cosa - Nostra" who at least had a certain loyalty and code of conduct towards each other, and as evilly hypocritical as the "Auto-da-Fé", which the Bush-nuts more readily resemble.
Our main hope for redress, is to haul the entire Bush crowd to the Hague and subject them to world-wide televised and radio-broadcast Nurenberg type trials, individually and collectively. The prisons they themselves helped to devise and fill at their every whim, are waiting for them.
-I mean, that's what INTERPOL and the UN are for, what???
It's critical for those who don't have ID's to get them and for voters to show up in HUGE numbers again.
If you watched his speech this week, then you know he is STILL trying to get that same cooperation from those same self-serving hypocrites. They will NEVER cooperate with him 'for the good of the country' - that would only make him a stronger candidate in 2012, and the Republican'ts focus remains fixed on that prize, as well as the purse-strings of their Wall Street and corporate masters.
I had hoped that Obama, being a Constitutional law professor, would have understood the necessity of following up with appropriate prosecution for the high crimes and treasonous acts committed by the Bush administration (read, Cheney administration) .
Things got off to a kick-in-the-guts disappointment when Nancy Pelosi announced, almost immediately following Obama's inauguration, that prosecution of Bush/Cheney war crimes was 'off the table.'
Once again, fear trumps hope and change.
His campaign was so smart and well organized, and he did the unthincable....he BEAT Hillary. She and everybody else thought the nomination was hers, Remember??? She had the money and "THE MACHINE"....Then he did the second unthinkable..being black..(half)
and with a strange part, muslim name, he WON THE ELECTION.
All that probably made him too confident .......and then the right wing reality struck
Excuse me? This is a Democrat Admin; he had a Dem House & Senate for the entire 1st 2 yrs.
During those 1st 2 yrs, they - "they" - did not pass a fed budget - Imagine?. They pushed thru, against the wish of the public, their Stimulus Bill - with nothing by Dems & Dem lobbyist input, and passed via a legal loophole their healthcare reform bill, also w/o public support.
His budget this year got 0 votes in the Senate, 0.
It was Obama & the Democrats who ignored his own Deficit Reduction Commission. Still don't think he's mentioned it publicly. This is the main reason we got downgraded at this time by S & P.
It was Obama's decision to send in more troops to Afghanistan (and I support him for that).
He decided to keep Gitmo open.
He decided on the trials.
He decided to keep the policy of extraordinary rendition (Clinton's policy mostly not needed after Gitmo opened).
Ya know, politics is like this. Bush wanted to pass SS reform - had majority public support - but the Dems thwarted it.
Same for stopping the housing bubble early on.
Same for comprehensive immigration reform.
Obama is nothing more than an inexperienced child.
He's says the outcome is bound to leave everyone with misery, loss, and despondency.
Leaving the $ cost off the table for the purpose for a larger look, this is a decades old internal discussion with me.
The US, under Carter started funding the opposition to the Soviet presence in Afghanistan in the late 1970's. When the Imperialist Soviet's finally invaded, militarily, Carter,with the push from Rep. Charlie Wilson, began more direct covert funding of the opposition, the Mujahideen.
After Reagan was elected, Charlie kept pushing - Reagan upped the aid. It was successful, and the Soviet's efforts to conquer Afghanistan was thwarted. What was left behind in Afghanistan, was a fatherless rubble of despair.
George H W Bush was then Pres, and while there was much wrangling for monies to provide aid and assist in the rebuilding, etc., in this dark void that the war had left behind, there was no stomach in Wash, from either side of the isle, nor from the WH. We did some limited effort.
Notice - I haven't mentioned the hapless United Nations yet. Nor, have I mentioned other world bodies or countries. I suspect it's safe to say that all turned their back on Afghanistan.
In the mid-90's, following years of internal civil conflict/war in that aftermath, the Taliban finally seized control of the country.
con't . .
There was no Libya, Kosovo, or Iraqi style effort pushed by the Clinton WH, the UN, nor other world bodies. Everyone looked the other way. While there were women's rights activists drawing attention to some of the horror, there certainly was never any "SaveDarfur.Org" sort of movement - nor awareness.
In this horrid environment which followed, Al Qaeda found an office to operate from in planning it's numerous attacks on the US, others, and in launching 9/11.
Now - other than this long and expensive road in chasing Al Qaeda, and subsequently their closet partners in horror, the Taliban, out of power in Afghanistan - the country is still mired in this horror of the past 30 years.
I don't know what is properly required in the moment, for at every step along the way the depth of this dark void of the rubble left behind and it's mark on humanity, continues to grow darker; however, I do believe - in my heart - that there as been a keen lack of imagination, of leadership, and of vision from the top down, from the UN and from other world bodies and world leaders, for these past 30 years, in coming together and engaging in an open discussion involving the entire saga.
con't
At the center of this lack of vision, I would suggest is the media. They hated that we were helping defeat the Communists. They go silent on the suffering left behind. They remain silent as the country and it's once-proud people's are ransacked. They wince, when we go in following 9/11. And, they seldom, if never, say 'enough is enough - 30 years is too long. Let's all stand together and fix the damn problem.
The US (no-one else will) should lay it all out, and call on the world to chip in and bring this thing to a successful and final ending, once and for all.
Does Russia (daughter of USSR) carry just a wee bit of responsibility here?
The USSR did not go into Afghanistan with the intent of overturning some terrible dictator or dangerous regime; rather, they were simply on a march, looking for conquest to establish satellite countries on their path to a southern port.
end
I think the rest of your account is quite solid. We DID abandon Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated there. We abandoned it because we did not give a damn about the Afghans; we just wanted to deny the Soviets movement southward.
Had we built on the Soviet defeat, we might have stayed and become a humane patron of Afghan opportunities. (The media lost interest for the same reasons Washington did: Afghanistan was no longer a field for our contest with the Soviets.)
Let me close with my favorite Afghan scholar. He told me a year and a half ago: "We are not a people of many accomplishments . But there's one thing in which we're the world champions: repulsing a foreign invader. I sometimes think guns are the only thing our young men understand. They
practice with them before they are teen-agers. And they are not afraid to die." More recently, he told me: "Afghan politics cannot be arranged from without. They are arranged by strong chiefs. Only if a strong chief with usually wide sympathies emerges, can Afghanistan emerge as a nation."
Yes, we -- but, as I stressed, the world at large and the national media - then, 13-14 yrs ago, to now - have turned their back and sit on their hands in regards to coming to Afghanistan's aid. That's why they have the Taliban - horrors of all horrors. And, that why it continues.
On the thrust of your closing impressive argument (it ain't wasted on me), indeed; and that search found this intriguing account - "A mass expression of outrage against injustice.
http://www.jpost.com/LandedPages/PrintArticle.aspx?id=209770
Bernard Lewis lays out the same understanding. The first few questions should suck you in.
But, I still rest my case with the fact, that our national media has not, and will not present a hint of an intelligent discussion, nor need for one, on the history here, nor what should have been done, nor what a leader - a visionary leader - would present today.
That person would stand up in front of the US and the UN, and recount the history of the past 30 years, and challenge the world to fix it.
Your scholar would tell you (unless he is a radical outsider) that if we walk away, there is not a chance in hell of hope of Afghanistan emerging as a nation which resembles the vision of it's long lost past.
They had a noble leader 30 years ago - a King - one, who was leading this tribal omelet of peoples in what I believe was a proper civilized direction. The Imperialist Soviet Empire screwed that beyond comprehension.
No - I'm not wrong. Neither are you.
Side bar: I never suggested, nor imagined the concept of national unity as being the glue. You did not read the opening conversation in the link I provided did you?
The question is the moment facing us in the moment. Will we protect them, so that they can deliver themselves?
Afgans never, and still do not, have a desire to acquire a future with the radical Islamic Taliban over their heads.
As soon as the resources are extracted, Afghanistan's human rights will be just as important as they are in about 100 other nations, we couldn't care less about.
That's the HONEST truth.
Or . . perhaps you can carry my message - that we should care much.
Why do we care what Afghans supposedly "want" when we don't care what the people of Yemen, or Somalia, or Ethiopia want?
DO YOU care what Afghans "want"? What if they DON'T want what you want them to want?
You're speaking for the entire nation of Afghanistan.
No wonder the world is always at war - with intolerant folks like you who only live to insult others - never to listen.
You don't need to back it up because that's not your style. Hit and run PARROTING of repug propaganda is more like it.
It's NOT "common knowledge" when most of us DON'T watch fox news.
Then is it common knowledge that the regime that we destabilized with our invention and support of the mujahedin in the 80's was an elected government? True it was communist but it was improving the lot of women and other things, but with Brzezinski's 'Grand Chessboard' book's strategy in mind, we started an insurrection that had the effect of bringing the Russians in with tanks and troops to aid their governmental allies. And so on. As to the present war there, if you believe in the 'Official History' of 911 than perhaps you should seriously consider the real danger of fighting people who can contravene the laws of physics as was so demonstrably on show on news film on 911. 'Harry Potter' is fiction-isn't Lord Voldemort as well?
Well King Zahir Shah's efforts at opening up liberalization efforts had it's difficulties, including allowing opposing radical parties, like the pro-communists, to deveolp . . from that point on it was . .
coup, then "bloody coup," then Soviet invasion, in 1979 (or was it '78."
It was in '80, that Saddam invaded Iran. Carter's last couple of years were dandy times.
Carter's fault;
Gore's fault;
Biden's fault;
Kennedy's fault;
Roosevelt's fault;
Clinton's fault
Did I leave any of your pat responses out?
It seems that you can apply the exact SAME PAT RESPONSES to any subject. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat them or how often they're rebutted a week. It doesn't matter how often you re-use the exact same worn out parroted accusations.
Do you notice any patterns in whose fault everything is? Do you notice who's never at fault? It's an interesting pattern.
I gave Carter credit for aiding the freedom fighters in Afghanistan - I did not blame him.
Never blamed Roosevelt for anything on these boards.
I have blamed Bush for a lot of things, however.
Get lost.
Still short on specifics. Could you be more specific about when you "gave Carter credit". Who were the "freedom fighters"? Because I ALWAYS read your posts and I don't remember EVER hearing anything but blame to Carter for helping out the people who eventually picked bin laden as their leader.
What have you blamed bush for that I wouldn't have heard from Jim DeMint or Paul Ryan (you know, that he was "too liberal"...)? I agree that you blamed him for adding a tiny portion to the "democratic" debt, then quickly followed up by saying that Gore would have done the same thing.
Is it possible for you to own up to anything?
I'm not going anywhere. Obviously you aren't either. You come to these threads for a reason. If it's to follow your agenda and expect the rest of us to roll over, sorry that some of us throw a wrench in your agenda.
What is our percentage now, anyway?
Other Countries felt sorry but none would say what I did..we did it to our own. that opened some minds
Well, ya know what? F%%K that. If a military coup were truly a concern, why wasn't it voiced a year ago while some of us from his base were still hoping against hope that he was just giving the opposition enough rope to hang themselves? I believe it is a sweet little piece of "leaked" propaganda, nothing more.
Here's the thing: I bet I'm not alone in thinking I actually had MORE respect for him when he was just a trojan horse repuglican acting like a Democrat to get votes and casually slipping tiny bits of progressive ideas through.
Now, if this is true, he REALLY IS A DEMOCRAT. Which means he's COMPLETELY incompetent and has no business pretending to know what he's doing.
F.D.R. "WELCOMED THEIR HATRED". He had more balls in his puny run-down polio infected body than Obama has in his wildest dreams.
Oh! What I wouldn't give for A PRESIDENT to take office!
Truth be told, she did much of the work of the Presidency his last year in office due to his illness. Obviously, she was more up to the job than many Presidents we've had since.
That's the path that we've been on for many years - there is no disagreement amongst any of them.
The shoot on sight order may have been different under the last bunch, as they preferred to capture, rather than being cowards and preferring to kill - to prevent the messy legal stuff.
If they were going to kill OB like the Terrorists are going to blow us up than let's get on with it. I get tired of Bullies always bullying, bragging and all they leave is puff of smoke. Believe if VP had to take charge, budget would have been handled better and quicker, jobs created. That is what he was an organizer, he got budgets done...instead everyone would rather bad mouth Biden instead of using him ...OB got them both backed into a corner and Biden would love to go into the Arena ... but no one lets him
Rather than making this an ad hominem tit-for-tat, why don't you tell us what you believe and why?
If you're for the "patriot act", then THANK BIDEN, since you believe he was behind it.
If you're against it, then admit that bush and cheney and the rest of the repug party were responsible for cramming something so anti-constitutional down our throats.
Which is it?
Many people make mistakes in life under extreme stress, but like Ted Kennedy, getting a pass from the media for serious human offenses, simply because you're on the same side of the isle as the press, and so everything is tightly held to protect them - instead of vetting them, and airing it out in public - then you wonder.
Then Biden did the drunk embarrassing bit on stage with Obama during the campaign - and they protected him again.
But along the way, maybe it's his drinking - or his past, he seems almost berserk half the time.
We've passsed from the Bush/Cheney Presidency to the Obama/Cheney Presidency.
Baker was clear; "by far" the main cause of the disappearance of the Clinton era surpluses and the quick return to huge deficits was the economic fallout from the collapse of the Clinton era dot.com bubble, in March 2000.
The disappearance of the nice little deficits, which were generated by the dot.com (Enron) bubble during the late 90's, was because of the econ fallout from the crash in March, 2000 & the econ fallout caused by that event.
It didn't matter whether it'd been Gore or Bush in 2001 - the surpluses were all toast. This is not rocket science.
Do a little math in your head. By end of 2003, the shift (the sum) from projected surpluses (3 years) to realized deficits totaled approximately $1.3 Trillion.
Total cost of Bush stimulus (mostly tax cuts - including $60bil in tax rebates, 2001-03, pushed by the Dems) for those 3 yrs was approx. $325bil. This doesn't consider any stimulus effect of the tax cuts, & certainly (as with Obama's stimulus/ tax cuts, some of it comes back from the rebound).
Note that 82% of the tax cuts did not to the rich (those making over $200K ($250K joint) - Obama's definition - 18% went to those.
Thru the end of '03, the costs for the Iraq War was $54 billion - (just started in March, 2003).
At the end of 2003, the fed deficit stood at $378 billion.
9/11 added costs too. Gore would have done at least $300 billion in stimulus in 2001-2003.
I don't buy it.
He has never even tried to mobilize his supporters once during his first term with the exception of seeking contributions to his next capaign.
That this man should be in charge of Boalt Hall! I have little doubt that Edley counseled Obama to acquiesce in the collapse of the American legal system. And when Democrats in deep denial say, "We've got to back Obama so the Repulicans don't take over," I replay in amazement: "What planet are you on?" Obama has absolutely betrayed his oath of office and taken a dive. He would rather be allowed to go through the motions of President than live up to his responsibilitie s to the people of America.
I will admit it's hard these days for Democrats to to face reality. Whereas Democrats continue to remonstrate with Republicans, it has become the custom of Republicans to assassinate Democratic leaders--and then find some squalid Democrat--LBJ or Barack Obama--to cover up the corpses.
technology we now have...to weed out the charismatic closet sociopaths and psychopaths who, with the stroke of pens either destroy or enhance our liberties, freedoms and pursuit of happiness.
The organization referred to as our government is, however, not the same as it once was. Many years ago there was a structure that was adhered to, in spite of the emotion or anger of fellow leaders or the populace. No longer. What there is, is a behind-the-scenes "leadership" and the one we actually see and listen to the yak yak. Obama and all the rest merely represent those truly in power.
The U.S. is no longer being led; it is being pushed.
I would hope that such loyalty, honor, and courage as shown by General Butler and President Roosevelt are not extinct in the executive offices of the federal government. The fact that this kind of treason was even suspected does not speak well of the political or military leaders at the end of the Cheney/Bush II administration.
What I wonder about is your "the only past U.S. President to be threatened...." I've found Russ Baker's FAMILY OF SECRETS a wonderfully thoughtful effort to assess the sinister pressures American Presidents have been under from the time of Kennedy up into the Bush/Cheney Administration.
JFK felt forebodings. LBJ, participating actively in the coverup that followed the government's murder of JFK, must have understood all-too-keenly that he might be found similarly expendable. Nixon was amazed the CIA would not let him have the file on JFK; I think he wanted it so he could arm himself against a similar fate. And so on.
This is not really debated by anyone.
Rove is not even in the loop.
What Gore's counsel in Bush V Gore had to say about the charges:
"That's exactly the problem. People can't remember everything. Now, people have got to tell the truth in front of a grand jury. That's very important. And if you are conducting an investigation where you really need to get people's testimony, and they lie, they need to be prosecuted, even if you ultimately conclude there was no underlying crime. That's not really the situation here, as I see it. Because from the outside it looks like the prosecutor knew, before some of this testimony was taken, that there was not an underlying crime. And then to go forward and try to get people maybe to slip up, make a mistake, so you can bring a perjury or obstruction charge, I think that's what's troubling here."
..The problem is I don't see any evidence that that's right. That is I don't see any evidence that they needed Libby's testimony to determine whether there was a crime or not. They knew who leaked it. Ok? They knew who leaked it."
That would be Armitage.
Wilson & Plame were the only ones up to mischief from the beginning. Everyone in Wash. knew what was going on. Armitage, made a silly mistake. Since everyone loves him, he was never an issue; rather, the mistake was used to attempt to destroy others. Simply baseless.
The problem with your "parity" is that you're incapable of displaying any. You never seem to see anything wrong with repugnicans. Why is that?
Up above - you attack me, in your usual attack and run manner - accusing me of just that. And, up there, I don't know exactly what it is that I need to back up - none of it is a stretch.
Then here, you blurt out that it was Libby and Cheney who exposed Valerie Plame.
Gee - you going to back that up?
No! So when I back up my position with a statement from the very well respected David Boies (former Gore counsel and lead in the effort to overturn the gay marriage ban in CA) - you change your entire story.
This is the way, you've always engaged in any discussion.
Billy - you have no voice. It's worthless.
http://www.rsnorg.org/news-section2/318-66/7263-focus-powell-aide-cheney-fears-trial-as-war-criminal
According to REPUG Powell, Cheney is afraid of war crimes. According to cheney, powell is the one responsible for the act of TREASON that outed Valerie Plame.
Who do YOU think committed treason by outing Valerie Plame as revenge for going against the bush administration?
They KNEW who leaked it. It was LIBBY'S BOSS - CHENEY. Libby was a fall guy. That's why he couldn't get his story straight. That's why he was convicted of perjury. That's why cheney just came out with a book covering his sorry ass, and blaming it on someone else.
Just once, I'd like you to offer some evidence that you don't worship at the alter of the repuglickan party.
yet, you whine about being "attacked".
Needless to say, you don't fit in there.
Did you forget how Joe Wilson 'outed' the yellow cake forgery ; the one item in the speech that was used to justify the invasion of Iraq? a false fact for a false war in which real people kill and are killed. That mischief?
Yes - the intelligence Bush inherited, and some that they gathered during his term, was flawed.
Well . . yes, i know all about the story. First of all, everyone knows that Wilson was on political mission. He came close to getting charged with perjury, himself - for lying in committee.
Politics is hardball - both sides of the isle. Sick.
And, for Billy again, it was Richard Armitrage who leaked Plame's name to both Bob Woodward and to Robert Novak.
And, it's all interesting:
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=50430
WASHINGTON, July 7, 2008 – Defense personnel have completed the transfer of 550 metric tons of Iraqi uranium ore to Canada, Defense officials said here today.
Did Woodward reveal the leak? As far as I know he didn't. Novak was the one to make it public, wasn't he? If it was Novak who released it to the world, why bring up that Woodward also knew about it, but kept his mouth shut? I wonder...
Who did Armitage work for? Why does cheney say it was Powell who leaked the info? Who was libby protecting? Why does Powell say cheney is blaming him to take the spotlight off of himself? I wonder...
Is it possible that ALL of these people were involved? Did they have an axe to grind? Um, YEAH they did!
Why is it that you're unwilling to accept the reality that repuglicans are to blame for something without trying to spread the blame to Democrats as well?
Who was to blame for Watergate?
This should be GOOD! (hint: I bet it was a Democrat)
loose gasket, there Bill boy carter.
Not many months later, there did occur a major crisis, and as instructed, the new Premier opened the first letter. It read: "Blame everything that has happened on your predecessor." The Premier did so, and was praised for his honesty and leadership. He continued to function as Premier, newly buoyed by the tremendous accolades and his reassured success.
Unfortunately, only a year later, there occurred yet another crisis. Again as instructed, the Premier opened his desk drawer and opened the second letter. It read: "Prepare two envelopes, and write two notes..."
Cossacks and tyrants are alas international and appear in many guises-their tactics don't change-the answer to what happens lies in who is being arrested!
I recognize he's disappointed us, but the alternative is downright dangerous to life as we know it here. A rethug president will destroy public schools, EPA, medicare, social security, bomb Iran, destroy unions, bring back Jim Crowe, you name it.
We've go to support opposition to all tea party obstructionists in every state starting with Eric C from Va. And if it's Perry, abolish separation between church and state. Even tho we are second rate these days, it can still get far worse. Just watch.
I always keep in mind and am almost reminded on a daily basis from various acquaintances here in Florida (I won't consider them friends) that their anger(meaning the right wing)is so much more pronounced than our's. These people hate us. We are the socialists always tryng to ruin their way of life. It's that whole "rugged individualist" crap and is why they love their right wing Republicans. They talk the right game for these imbeciles(that's right I said it.)
We are the logical/rational thinkers. We don't act on pure emotion like the imbeciles. We are philosophcally opposed to violence. We do not have the ear of the military/industrial complex who shall remain the arm of the "shadowy" figures who run things behind the scenes.
If Obama intended to really investigate-and who knows what that might uncover(obvious ly the close knit society held by the Bushies and Saudis.)
Do any of you think Obama (our first Black President )would only endure the character assassinations that Clinton and Elliot Spitzer(another investigator)we re victimized by? First and foremost he is a father and most dads I know want to say alive for their kids' sake.
The fact that very smart people such as yourself miss this means we have a long way to go to get to where we could prosecute such crimes.
Not standing up to the right, when Obama's admin. had the full support of the country, has resulted in the right gaining even more of a stranglehold on us all..to the point where the right openly blackmails and threatens the entire country if Obama doesn't do their bidding (debt ceiling debacle).
If you think things are bad now, just watch with Perry as President with a GOP Senate & House. They'll be free to: dismantle Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid; do away with the minimum wage; stop funding for every program that benefits the middle class or poor; keep directing wealth into the deep pockets of corporations (who hide profits -- and won't pay ANY TAXES); keep unemployment & wages low to control 'the masses'; make it impossible to live on what people earn; dismantle health care reform so we pay more & get less coverage; continue destroying 50 years of gains to protect women, gays and blacks. Just to name a FEW!
Do you REALLY want the satisfaction of not voting for Obama to make a statement-- knowing this will mean a Rick Perry as President??? See: FOCUS: Perry Tales http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-72/7382-focus-perry-tales.
Take away the Fear factor and we can elect a genuine progressive, instead of succumbing to the DNC's Fear Machine. What kind of democracy do we have if we continue to be offered only "2" (corporate) parties to choose between?
It's people like yourself who cause the Dems to keep giving us nominees whom voters have to hold their noses to vote for...lest the sky fall from a Rep victory. Take the LONG VIEW...bite the bullet and vote for a candidate who shares genuinely progressive values! We survived 8 years of the worst president in my lifetime. With Obama in the Oval Office, American policy (foreign AND domestic) still sucks and continues to go the same route Bush set us out upon.
Use your own damned head and consider this country's future instead of your own "comfort"!
If you can't, then if you don't mind, I choose to vote against the outright insanity of the right and vote FOR a Democrat. Yes, the two party system sucks in may ways, so work to change that.
Maybe you're young. If you vote against Obama to make a point, you help elect Rick Perry (or one of the other right wing nut-jobs) who WILL finish the destruction boy George started.
That's what many did by voting for Nader in 2000 and this, along with the theft of the election by the Supreme Court, prevented Al Gore from becoming President.
He is the most dangerous man in America. His is "Evil with a Smile."
His is the new and improved face of evil. Drone executions with grace and style; assassination of people in foreign countries with wit and skill; imprisonment and persecution of Bradley Manning with the look of one who gravely regrets that he must try to squash this young American, though try to squash him he must. How smoothly the man moves.
Obama is busily making evil into the New Cool. I doubt there's a single candidate among the Republicans who can pull that off. If you re-elect Obama, you will have ratified evil in your own heart, and will have contributed heavily
and effectively to the destruction of what is left of America's decency.
Because if you don't vote for Obama (if he's the candidate), you will be voting for Rick Perry or some other right wing tyrant.
A fly on OB's jacket who has been a good source on info, said this was the exact statement. Congress, TP remind him daily.
The President is not King. Congress has just as much power as the President and they have shown us that they can use it. The Supreme Court has as much Power also and they have shown us that they can use it.
Another thing this article does not mention and that is that the Republicans have another Army on our soil. Have we forgotten Blackwater?
a "good guy" is not that much of a coward -
does he realize he is the President -
and that he was elected by people who wanted these prosecutions and expected them, and were told they would get them?
You have put it in a nut shell!!
I would would only add by agreeing with some others who say
they can kill one man but they can not kill all the people if we stuck together and refused to work or or buy their oil!!
Is it just me, or does cheney look EVEN MORE EVIL THAN USUAL in that picture?
Remember when WE were afaid to say anything against the Bush administration ? Cheney dared us to say anything
REmember the Guy who wrote that Carl Rove called him and told him that he knew at all times where he was and that he could have rocket launched and take him out?
How didCarl Rove get the kind of power that would give him the gall to say that he could order someone to be killled.
Can any of you find that article or the recording that was aired on NPR(The network the Republicans are trying to destroy with guess what..Cutting off of Federal funding.)
These Republicans are a threat to American Democracy when they use our tax dolllars to deny us freedom of speech and our right not to have anyone threatened anyone do not bow down to them.
I beleive we call it caving when Obama bows.
Does he really think that this is what folks voted for?
How stupid/arrogant/totally without excuse.
truly a tragedy
The last person who had the power to resist being prosecuted for a capital crime and did not was Jesus and neither Bush of Cheney bears any resemblance.
RSS feed for comments to this post.