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Intro: "Like many of you, I was shocked to learn that Senator Scott Brown is supporting the Blunt amendment, a dangerous measure being pushed by Senate Republicans that would allow insurance companies and employers to deny health care coverage to anyone for any reason, just when people need it most."

Elizabeth Warren pushes back against Scott Brown's support of the Blunt amendment allowing insurance companies and employers to deny health care coverage. (photo: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg via Getty)
Elizabeth Warren pushes back against Scott Brown's support of the Blunt amendment allowing insurance companies and employers to deny health care coverage. (photo: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg via Getty)



An Attack on All of Us

By Elizabeth Warren, Reader Supported News

16 February 12

 

ike many of you, I was shocked to learn that Senator Scott Brown is supporting the Blunt amendment - a dangerous measure being pushed by Senate Republicans that would allow insurance companies and employers to deny health care coverage to anyone for any reason, just when people need it most.

I was even more shocked Senator Brown emailed his supporters just a couple hours ago attacking me personally - and basically everyone who opposes this radical bill - claiming that I had assumed "the mantle of oppressor."

Let me be clear: I support President Obama's solution to make sure that religious institutions are not forced to cover contraception but that women can get the health care they need. This new bill that Scott Brown is supporting is not about religious institutions - it's about something very different. It would allow any employer or insurance company to refuse to cover any person for any treatment. Not only is it an attack on women's ability to get the vital health care we need, it is an attack on every one of us.

Think about what this will mean to you and your family. Are you pregnant? Elderly? Disabled? Do you have a chronic problem like diabetes or heart disease? Do you go for routine screening tests or rely on daily medications? Any medical test, treatment or prescription your boss or HMO doesn't want to pay for could suddenly become morally objectionable - and under this amendment, your employer or insurance company would not have pay for it. You would lose your health care coverage.

Is this Scott Brown's idea of standing by the middle class? Is this what he means when he says he wants to make this the "People's Seat?" He wants to help families by letting employers and insurance companies take away health care coverage?

This election is about whose side you're on.

The economics around health care are huge for families. Skyrocketing costs have been a big factor in the financial squeeze facing middle-class families.

Despite all that, Scott Brown wants to give even more power to corporations and insurance companies to deny basic health care coverage and undermine a fundamental principle of the Affordable Care Act - namely that everyone in this country deserves a basic standard of health care coverage.

Right now, while Scott Brown is fighting to eliminate health care reform, I'm fighting for families to keep that coverage. I'll fight for it now, and you can be sure I'll keep right on fighting for families in the Senate.

Massachusetts families deserve better - and they need health care. Stand with me and join this fight.

Thank you for being a part of this,

Elizabeth Warren

For information on the Elizabeth Warren campaign for United States Senate go here.

 

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-345 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 07:54
Elizabeth Warren opposes Secure Communities. Having illegal aliens who are killing US citizens, or getting drunk and running them over with their cars - that is what I would call "An Attack on All of Us". When is Warren going to wake up to this problem? We have had several cases of illegal aliens killing pedestrians and other drivers here in Massachusetts in the last year, and another one in which a drunk Mexican smashed into the back of the car of a State Rep, with the result that several people had to go to the ER with severe injuries. A few years back, there was a notorious incident in which an illegal from Central America raped a girl in a wheel chair.

Nationwide we have illegal immigrant gangs engaged in drug smuggling. There are 300 Mexican illegal aliens on death row for heinous murders on our soil. It is not just the cost in human life, but also the fear this causes and the real costs in trying and incarcerating these illegal alien criminals. Elizabeth Warren's response: Nothing. Do absolutely nothing about this, not even support Secure Communities, a weak measure but at least a start.

Whatever his problems, Scott Brown has his head screwed on right when it comes to Secure Communities. When is Warren going to stop looking at things from the standpoint of illegal aliens, and start looking at them from the standpoint of US citizens? A vote for Warren is a vote for non-enforcement of immigration laws, and the crime it is causing in Massachusetts.
 
 
+208 # Karlus58 2012-02-16 08:24
Holy smokes...you are one sick puppy! Got no idea where you get this stuff and believe it. It's fruitless to even begin to rebuke your madness. There's a beautiful world out there not filled with your nonsense. Your world is very small.
 
 
+136 # Bruce Gruber 2012-02-16 09:07
The Britebart/Rove/FOX/emBLAZEned Limbaugh Beck shitstorm machine has you on a speed dial e-mail list as a sucker for misinformation. They count on you to lend your possible credibility to biased propaganda and half truths. You are urged (and expected) to regurgitate and spread their concoctions so they will come at resentful recipients from you so many sources that the 'junk' seems to be FACT.

The Blunt Amendment, Secure Communities Act and so many other current right-wing "AGIN" movements are only designed to protect the 1% that owns OUR government from regulation by antagonizing your biases and fears ... but my observation probably can't overcome the fact that you have already drunk the kool aid.
 
 
+62 # LessSaid 2012-02-16 12:01
judgeroybean, surely much be Scott Brown himself. I can't imagine anyone else saying something stupid like that. In any case, since the GOP know they can't repeal ObamaCare, they are introducing bills trying to undermine it.
 
 
-21 # disgusted American 2012-02-18 16:23
Scott Brown's win in the MA special election when Ted Kennedy died was a referendum on health care reform.

Why? Because Obamacare is the failed and regressive MA plan on steroids. Democrats voted for Brown and made calls to other Dems to do the same. He was the 41st voted needed to filibuster Obamacare, and MA residents were trying to save the rest of the country from this.

Dems on Capitol Hill were in a panic the night he won. That is why Pelosi used reconciliation to ram Obamacare through against the will of the American people and also gave MA voters the middle finger.

Don't think for one minute that 98 percent of MA residents have affordable access to care and choice of docs/hosptials or that they can afford to even use the gov't-approved coverage because they CAN'T. And they can't afford the tax penalties enforced by the MA Dept of Revenue if they are uninsured. Failure to pay the penalty on time, in full results in interest and penalties, and eventually if not paid, garnishment of paychecks, seizure of bank acc'ts and liens on property. Same thing that happens when you don't pay your taxes.

And, btw, 98 percent is a bogus figure. You need to look at the number of disenrollments per month from plans (subsidized and private market) which often outweigh enrollments. Per the 2010 MA census, 370,000 were uninsured and that number doesn't include people who don't bother to fill out the census.

(con't so scroll down)
 
 
-21 # disgusted American 2012-02-18 16:58
(con't) MA had 10% uninsured when law began. Now maybe 5% of that 10 are insured at any given time. Plan was unsustainable by year 1, so sales tax increased - 5% to 6.25%. In 2009, 37,000 paying customers were dropped from subsidized plans to save $150 mil and were shoved into a substandard plan without their consent. Recently, MA SJC found this illegal on the part of MA legislature and MA has to come up with big bucks to put these folks into their original plans.

MA health care costs and premiums increase each year including subsidized plans, but MA state and nationals stick to the talking points as does Elizabeth Warren.

Re Obamacare subsidized plans, you will be told how much you can afford to pay based on prior year income. I read that cheapest gov't approved coverage being discussed presently is 60/40. Don't recall deductible. Affordability is based on prior year, so if current year is better, it's payback time, but cheer up: paybacks are capped.

If eligible for expanded Medicaid, no other choice except a tax penalty for remaining uninsured IF you aren't auto-enrolled against your will. Law not clear on auto-enrollment. If dumped into Medicaid, you're subject to Medicaid regs which include a federally-mandated estate recovery program for all states that receive fed Medicaid funding. (OBRA 1993) So people who use Medicaid benefits at age 55 and up will be getting a mandated collateral loan.

(con't so scroll down)
 
 
-21 # disgusted American 2012-02-18 17:12
(con't) If offered coverage by employer, you must enroll unless it's more than about 9 - 9.5% of your salary. (Look up % in law.) Could be a mini-med plan that doesn't cover much. Many businesses have applied for a waiver from having to offer gov't approved coverage.

Can't afford the premium gov't says you can afford? In MA you can file an appeal if in dire straits: house burned down, spousal abuse, paying off medical debt, other catastrophic events. Waiver is very temporary, so you have to get your act together quickly. If you apply again, medical debt in first appeal is not allowable even if you are still paying it off.

So before you pay for food, lodging, heat, loans, utilities, etc., you will pay for health insurance or an IRS enforced tax penalty should you choose to heat and eat instead. Untenable choices that you may need to revisit each yea your income increases.

Only the tip of the iceberg re MA plan and Obamacare. So you may want to start praying that the latter is repealed. A few may be helped but how many is it OK to exploit in order to benefit a few?

As for the Blunt amendment re moral conscience and medical care, do you know that Ted Kennedy put forth a bill that said more or less the same: religious beliefs and moral conviction or moral conflict? Was in the 70s or 80s. Can't remember which.

If a Dem does this, it's OK, but if a Republican does the same, it's not OK?
 
 
+15 # Archie1954 2012-02-18 17:52
I'm sorry but maybe I missed something? Wasn't it the Republicans who demanded that the so called Obamacare be structured in the least favorable way so that the GOP's friends, the insurance companies could continue to reap their huge profits from the misery of others?
 
 
-3 # disgusted American 2012-02-21 01:48
Archie1954,

D's wanted O'care as it is. Saw a chart: Obama took close to $2 mil from insurance. Baucus (D-MT) took huge $. Also other D's. Baucus headed committee hearings - had 13 docs & nurses arrested for standing up & asking why singlepayer wasn't on table while Kerry made snied remarks that were caught on tape & went viral. S-payer not on table Obama's doing. He was working for Karen Ignani, CEO of AHIP and Billy Tauzin at Big Pharma.

Baucus hired Liz Fowler from Wellpoint (BCBS) to write his bill. Kennedy hired John McDonough, former CEO of MA Health Care for Some to be his sr nat'l health care advisor. McD was locked in w/ MA Connector (highly-paid, politically-appointed bureaucrats with ties to the industry) so supported the MA plan despite apparent failures & harms. Then went to D.C.

Jon Kingsdale, former Connector CEO taught (indoctrinated) K's h-care staffers about MA plan but no MA resident being harmed was asked to participate - not part of the agenda.

All MA nat'l & state D's looked the other way & continued the party line: MA great success. Some MA people trying to get truth out wrote to Maddow, Matthews, Schultz & Olberman but were ignored. MSM bought & pd for.

R's ran from it for political reasons. They just made loud R noises per usual.

So, yeah, you missed a lot. Get out of the Ds-are-great-&-Rs-are-bad box. On Capitol Hill, they all play good cop, bad cop while dining at the same trough.
 
 
+20 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 18:31
These are the kinds of choices we're stuck with until we get SINGLE-PAYER.
 
 
-167 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 09:24
Got no idea where I got this stuff? Try Googling the following:
Nicolas Guaman, illegal immigrant from Ecuador, who got drunk and killed Matt Denice in Milford, MA on August 20, 2011. Bianca Contreras, illegal immigrant from Guatemala, who ran over and killed Scott Coxall, in November 2011, then fled the scene. Isaias Naranjo, who got drunk and rear-ended a car being driven by Mass. State Representative in May 2010, resulting in serious injuries to several people in Moran's vehicle. The case of the Central American who raped the girl in the wheel chair back in 2002 is so notorious you would have to be living in a cave not to have heard about it.

Warren was asked about Secure Communities after this serious of horrendous incidents (which included another one in which a Brazilian illegal immigrant butchered his girlfriend with a kitchen knife), and she said that she does NOT support the law (and it is a MANDATORY LAW from ICE, although some morally superior politicians do not feel like implementing it).

Who is the "sick puppy"? Someone who sees this stuff going on and demands the law be enforced, or someone who is oblivious to it and charges racism when the matter is raised? The law is the law. By what right do people like Deval Patrick (and Warren, if she is elected) refuse to implement it, when they take an oath of office that requires that they do? Are they above the law?
 
 
+63 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 09:45
Sick puppy is putting mildly, you damn redneck! What in the hell has that crap have to do with the healthcare act? How many non-mexicans are in jail, got drunk, murdered someone or rapped somebody? Man, you are one sick dude. I'm glad I don't live next door to you. My grass would die as well as all my pets. Get a life!
 
 
+105 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 09:47
And by the way, your handle, judgeroybean, fits you perfectly. He was a very demented sick dude from Texas, The Hanging Judge.
 
 
+96 # Shirley 2012-02-16 09:48
Dear Dear Judge....to repeat, this is about health care...now if
you want to talk about illegals, that's one topic. If you want to
talk about murders, etc, that's another topic.
Now, read about health care for women, oh oh..
 
 
-129 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 10:12
No, Shirley, it is about the title Warren chose for her article. "An Attack on All of Us". Ask Matt Denice's family about what that phrase means to them. Hint: It isn't health care.
 
 
+19 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 05:00
Now you're admitting that you didn't even read the article? Classy.
 
 
+83 # AReber 2012-02-16 10:32
Mr Bean: I don't know the details of these incidents and, until they are finally adjudicated, neither do you. But, even if they are true, they are not unexpected. There are some 10 million undocumented immigrants in the country. The data I've seen suggests that they are actually among the more law biding and peaceful of groups.

But what, I wonder, do you think of Professor Warren's point here? Are you in favor of Blunt amendment? Or can you find ways to attack her here as well?
 
 
+42 # LeeBlack 2012-02-16 11:42
Googling for specifics to support your preconceived belief is like quoting verses from Liviticus and saying that represents the entire Bible.
 
 
+44 # Jude 2012-02-16 16:11
And how many people like you--born and bred American, I assume--had drunk or negligent driving charges resulting in death? How many males like you--born and bred in America, I mean--committed rape or femicide? Your anecdotal accounts mean nothing out of context. Humans can be bad. We know that.
 
 
+23 # Observer 47 2012-02-17 10:04
So, judge, once we get rid of all these illegals who rape, stab, drive drunk, and commit 0.000001% of the total crimes in your fair state, what do you do about the American citizens who commit the other 99.999999%??? Mass deportation?
 
 
+5 # LeeBlack 2012-02-19 08:40
How many of you are writing your Senators?
 
 
+56 # OldRedleg 2012-02-16 09:13
You really do need to grease your cherry-picker. It's showing a lot of signs of neglect and misuse.
 
 
+102 # Archie1954 2012-02-16 09:30
So judgeroybean you want to be possibly safe from illegals so you can die from some health issue that your insurance coverage won't pay for? Interesting choice!
 
 
+29 # Kiwikid 2012-02-16 11:33
Brilliant!
 
 
+65 # JCM 2012-02-16 10:02
I suppose there were a lot of people who would have been for "Secure Communities" when the Irish came over. Maybe when the Germans camr over. Maybe when the... The hate never seems to stop!
 
 
+21 # Art947 2012-02-16 16:38
Did anyone think that maybe Rick Santorum should not have U.S. citizenship? Were his parents "legal" immigrants when they came here from Italy? Or were they the "with out papers" element that is now called an "illegal"? Just wondering.
 
 
+60 # Holyone 2012-02-16 10:07
Screwed is right but it has nothing to do with the manner in which Scott Brown has his head attached to his body.
Rather, "SCREWED" has more to do with what Scott Brown, REPUBLICANS and the Chatholic Bishops are trying to do to the American People.

By the way, Check out the Jails and see if you can get a head count of Non-aliens and Mexicans who have committed crimes that go way pass the ones you have outlined here.

Health Reform will help you with the purchase of your medication so that you can become stablized and lucid again.
 
 
+43 # cynnibunny 2012-02-16 10:30
Quoting
Elizabeth Warren opposes Secure Communities. Having illegal aliens who are killing US citizens, or getting drunk and running them over with their cars - that is what I would call "An Attack on All of Us". When is Warren going to wake up to this problem?


Wow! Can someone please plug this guy back into reality? Is he doing what Chomsky warned against: sitting in a locked room with the TV on 24/7?

If we listen to the corporate media, we'd think we're being taken over by little green men from Mexico or 'Arabia' or China!!! Get real dude - the crazies are on TV!
 
 
-101 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 12:36
Wow, Noam Chomsky. The MIT professor of linguistics who writes tract after tract proving how every single problem on planet Earth is the fault of the United States. Whose books are fodder for demagogues like Hugo Chavez. That's what passes for analysis among the "Blame America First" left. Typical leftwing Groupthink. Find a leftist demagogue, and then worship at his feet. That is "reality" for people like "cynnibunny", until of course they get run over or raped or robbed by an illegal alien themselves, at which point they wake up.

No, I am not sitting in a locked room, watching TV. I just read the papers, and see what I see around me here in Massachusetts. And I know this will amaze the self-righteous leftists on this site, but I am not alone; what I am saying is a majority opinion both here in this state and in the United States, and it is why Secure Communities was instituted, BY PRESIDENT OBAMA, in the first place.

Elizabeth Warren is a terrible choice for Senate - just another person who does not want to enforce the most basic protections for US citizens, just like Teddie boy and John Kerry and Barney Frank. And I am no fan of Scott Brown either, but he is better than either Martha Coakley or Elizabeth Warren on issues like this, which are common sense to the average person whose brain has not been rotted by excessive reading of Noam Chomsky and "The Nation".
 
 
+54 # cynnibunny 2012-02-16 10:38
OK, we've given this crazy enough attention. Now lets see if we can get Elizabeth into the Senate. Scott Brown - like ALL Republicans who get into office by showing a 'kinder, gentler' side, always kowtow to the extremist noise machine. Whether they mean it or not is another matter. But there can be no guarantee that a politician will not act on his or her extremism. If it serves a purpose, it just may be 'useful' to take action on a false, crazy notion that incites.
 
 
0 # disgusted American 2012-02-21 02:00
cynnibunny,

". . . like all Rs who show a hinder gentler side?"

How about Obama who lied his way in to the White House and has continued where Bush left off and also done worse things?

How about all the Dems who support the endless fake war on terror and bombing every country on the planet while drones kill innocent kids and other civilian

How about the payroll tax cut that is FICA paid by your employer and you so they can all claim SS is broke and get rid of Social Security?

Have you seen Obama's budget with $360 bil - yes, BILLION - in cuts including Medicare and Medicaid when Obamacare expands Medicaid and seniors are having problems paying for Medicare Parts B and D with the freaking donut hole?

Or is all of that OK wiht you b/c they are Dems?

It's a one-party system disguised as two to keep the 99% divided b/c they know a house divided cannot stand. If you support OWS, remember OWS is not for any party. They are for the people. They are us.
 
 
+46 # Regina 2012-02-16 11:05
What connection does your rant have with the Blunt amendment, designed to destroy the availability of health care provisions for women, on the laughable grounds of an employer's "religious" or "moral" beliefs, when we know damned well that it's all for money, power, and misogyny?
 
 
+34 # Billsy 2012-02-16 11:52
Don't be fooled into demonizing illegals mr. bean. In truth, draconian laws attacking illegals, most of whom come here to work at crap jobs, simply drive them underground to greater degree, and make it more difficult for them to cross borders so they wind up staying longer than they did before. This is why sane people wanted illegals to be able to get proper licensing and training to drive safely since one can hardly work without a car in america. So quit bashing the guy who cares for your lawn and butchers your meat in a dangerous agri-corporation and start looking after ALL of US including yourself. Why shoot yourself in the foot supporting an insurance company. Or do you work for one? Are you just a right wing shill?
 
 
+47 # MainStreetMentor 2012-02-16 12:26
Typical conservative ploy: Create a diversion of topic, in an attempt to discredit. Elizabeth Warren is the best breath of political fresh-air to hit the campaign trail in decades!
 
 
-12 # disgusted American 2012-02-18 19:08
Ted Kennedy had an amendment back in the 70s or so regarding the same as the Blunt amendment. His was also about religious belifs and medical care and also moral conviction/moral conflict.

The Blunt amendment calls it moral conscience. Same thing.

So, if a Democrat writes such an amendment, it's OK with you, but if a Republican does this, it's not OK?

Warren is just another politician trying to get elected. She will not be a breath of fresh-air. She doesn't even have a policy regarding health care - just some mumbo-jumbo talking points that are basically meaningless.

I won't be voting for her b/c of that.

And when asked what her stand is on the recently signed NDAA? Well, no response.
 
 
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-02-19 06:13
Disgusted,

Who will you be voting for in the next election: Scott Brown? Or, are you refering to the Presidential race she's not competing in?

Could you give us some information about the Ted Kennedy, like a link that's not from a right-wing site.
 
 
-3 # disgusted American 2012-02-20 20:48
BillyBob,

No Warren. She supports Obamacare. Jill Stein for prez. D's + R's = 1-party system working for Wall St.

Brown's win in MA = referendum on health care reform. MA dems voted for him, called other dems to do same. He was vote 41 to filibuster O'care. MA wanted to save their fellow Americans. Coakley was vote 60 Sen. dems needed to pass it. O flew to BLUE state MA to rally for her. Brown's win is why Pelosi used reconciliation to ram O'care through.

O'care modeled on failed & regressive MA plan that has adversely affected many & is unsustainable - showed this in year 1. When more $ is needed, comes out of pockets of people O said he wants to help. Higher premiums ea. yr., benefits cut, networks reduced while you have IRS-enforced tax penalty hanging over your head if not insured. Byzantium sinkhole for most of 99%. Some may benefit. How many is it OK to exploit?

Income goes up, premium goes up - plus annual increases by insurance leeches. Only tip of iceberg. If mandate in O'care not repealed, fasten seatbelt.

Am not right wing. K not all he's cooked up to be. People call MA plan Romneycare but K worked w/ him per R's public testimony to MA Joint Committee. They worked to get federal 1115 Medicaid Demonstration Waiver to fund MA plan. K kept cheerleading even when he knew it was failing & harming people. Hired a MA player to concoct his O'care bill & O had a MA spinmeister, Gruber, work with Sibelius.
 
 
+14 # irvingwood 2012-02-17 14:08
They're NOT illegal ALIENS. They are human beings deserving of respect for that reason alone. How sick is this puppy? Unless ALL illegal immigrants do the things he says he is an out-and-out racist.
 
 
+14 # solidusys 2012-02-18 10:15
I disagree. Elizabeth Warren's position does look out for the best interests of U.S. citizens. The name of this law -- "Secure Communities" is another example of marketing a euphemism onto a basically bad legislation. We as U.S. citizens should choose to keep government out of our lives even at the expense of some perceived security.

The quotation attributed to B. Franklin has been mangled through time however all variants are true:
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
 
 
+75 # artful 2012-02-16 08:16
Illegal aliens are not our biggest problem when it comes to being secure from drunk drivers, or even outrageously bad drivers. I live in the South and watch daily the drivers who ignore red lights, ignore pedestrians, and generally behave as though nobody else is on the road.
 
 
+84 # howard1912 2012-02-16 08:55
Judgeroybean: the topic is health care coverage/Blunt amendment. There is nothing in the article about your topic. Maybe you need to re-read the article.
 
 
+10 # Texas Aggie 2012-02-17 23:16
Aren't you making a big assumption about the good judge's literary abilities?
 
 
+78 # grouchy 2012-02-16 08:58
Thank you Elizabeth and please tell us you will be running for president in the near future! We need you!
 
 
+67 # swampfox 2012-02-16 09:01
hey judgeroybean, white teenagers get drunk and cause more car accidents than any other group. white men rape. think we better ship them all out of the country too??
 
 
+71 # angelfish 2012-02-16 09:06
The Nazi/Fascists are on the march, dear friends! Not only in Wisconsin, but in Virginia the Governor is about to sign a draconian bill FORCING women, AGAINST their will, to undergo UNneccessary, Vaginal Ultra-Sound examinations if they are seeking to terminate a pregnancy! These people cloak themselves in the mantle of Christianity but, as I have said so many times before, wouldn't know Christ if he came down off the Cross in front of their very eyes! We MUST stop these Loons from having ANY say over ANYONE'S Medical issue, be it reproductive or otherwise! WHY should Government have ANY say over your Medical Care? This is SHEER Lunacy! God HELP and SAVE America! God speed you, Elizabeth! I look forward to your good work when you are elected to Congress! The People, UNITED will NEVER be defeated! Vote the Nazi/Fascists OUT in November!
 
 
+28 # Bope2 2012-02-16 13:29
Interesting that these same (mostly) men who are so anxious to force women to "take responsibility" [sic] for their sexuality have voted down amendments to their so-called "personhood" bills that would force fathers to take responsibility for their children. The right wing's answer to everything about women, the poor, and ethnic minorities is "take responsibility for your misfortunes," but for corporations, men, and the wealthy, it's "not responsible."
 
 
+27 # angelfish 2012-02-16 14:20
I've been thinking about this Trans-Vaginal Ultra-Sound travesty and think that perhaps they ought to do Rectal Screenings, Anal Probings and Proctoscopies on ALL MALE Conservative Political Candidates in Virginia to assess whether or not they have ANY brains at all because it is obvious that the current Governor does NOT!.
 
 
+18 # Art947 2012-02-16 16:45
If one did a colonoscopy/proctoscopy on these political misfits, then you might actual have a picture of their brains!

Meanwhile, all these efforts by repugnican thugs are just meant to denigrate women and their health needs. I trust that the mothers of these "men" are really proud of their actions. Is this how their religious beliefs teach them to "honor" their parents?
 
 
+44 # haiku1 2012-02-16 09:06
"Whatever his problems" is right about Scott Brown. Lots and lots of problems. Leave it to a Brown supporter to respond to yet another instance in which Brown is selling out to the highest corporate bidder (in this case, big insurance companies, but much of the time to his buddies on Wall Street who fund him more than almost any other Senator--what, you might ask, for? check his voting record of siding with the big money against ordinary people)with a xenophobic rant about "aliens." I bet you have a few undocumented workers working for you right now, buddy. Washing your car or caring for your lawn, picking your fruit or cleaning the office in which you work. And how the hell did your family get here? Think they were murderers and criminals just because they came to a new country for a better life?
 
 
-104 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 09:32
You miss the point. Elizabeth Warren has stated when asked that she does not and will not support Secure Communities, the current law now being enforced nationwide by ICE. And this is an Obama Administration law, not some racist piece of legislation, as you would have it. It has led to the successful removal of serious illegal alien criminals from cities all over the US. Except not in Massachusetts, where Governor Deval Patrick has refused to implement it, and people like Elizabeth Warren refuse to support it, even though it is THE LAW, and elected politicians take an oath of office to uphold and enforce current law.

I will say it again: A vote for Elizabeth Warren is a vote for someone who refuses to do her part to enforce immigration law. We have seen what the results of that are in Massachusetts in the last few months.
 
 
+48 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 10:00
Agian, what does this right wing, facist drivel have to do with the Affordable Health Care Act?
 
 
-88 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 10:20
It has to do with the title Warren chose for her piece: "An Attack on All of Us". Warren can pose as the Great Defender of the common man all she wants. She obviously does not care when US citizens are being victimized by illegal alien criminals, since the removal of such criminals is the purpose of Secure Communities, and she refuses to support that law (an Obama Administration law that is MANDATORY on states).

And saying that it is not right-wing, fascist drivel. Massachusetts is a state where the morally superior Governor Deval Partick has refused to implement a mandatory federal law aimed at removing illegal alien criminals, and Warren supports that stance. And that despite the fact that a large majority of Massachusetts residents have said again in again in public opinion polls that they want Security Communities enforced here, just as US citizens nationwide have done. If that is fascist, then 65% of US citizens are fascist.

Elizabeth Warren should review her priorities, and also brush up on constitutional law. A mandatory federal law is not a matter of choice. It is part of THE LAW, and elected officials take an oath to uphold the law.
 
 
+18 # Jane Gilgun 2012-02-16 12:16
It's strange to me to see people who think in such stereotypic terms. Where is your heart? Your mind? Your democratic principles? Your decency?
 
 
+39 # Bruce Gruber 2012-02-16 10:42
"judge',
It's easy to see where you get this "stuff". The more obvious question is why "THIS" stuff gets your animus up - inasmuch as more than 10 times the number killed at Ground Zero on 9-11 die on America's highways every year, but you choose to focus on a couple of specific cases.

Most of us know that you are fed this "directed" poison by clever folks who have some other axe to grind. Think tort reform, fraudulent voting, 'right to work' laws, "Obamacare" 'sales taxes' on house sales, Hawaii vacations for welfare recipients, "job killing" health and safety regulations, job killing EPA restrictions on air and water pollution.

Who do you think benefits from your angry display of 'scientific' analysis and 'source' quoting, your 'forwarded' e-mails and angry finger pointing? If you were willing to look and analyze rather than react and rant, you MIGHT note that the beneficiaries of your efforts are the drug and hospital industry, large scale employers (who haven't yet outsourced 'your' jobs), insurance industry moguls and Wall Street financial wizards - all folks who probably do NOT deserve support for anything they do that benefits you.

By the way, "ICE prioritizes the removal of criminal aliens..." The "Secure Communities" process is NOT a law, it is a communication agreement between federal, state and local law enforcement. Your "facts" are STILL just a game being played on you.
 
 
-54 # judgeroybean 2012-02-16 12:48
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Fact: These are not isolated cases, there are thousands of Americans who have been killed by illegal immigrants, and you can easily verify this on-line, where you can find names and descriptions of their deaths. Fact: We have had a spate of such cases here in Massachusetts, and I cited them; and I do not need to be "fed" such "stuff", since it is reported in the Boston Globe and on every local network when it happens. Fact: Elizabeth Warren was asked about Secure Communities in the wake of these incidents, and she has refused to support it.

Secure Communities is not a law in and of itself, it is a program, but it is a program within the framework of existing federal law, and that is the point. And it is not optional for states and localities. It is mandatory, as you would know if you had followed the back and forth between the Obama Administration and the Deval Patrick administration here in Massachusetts.

And guess what? It is overwhelmingly popular. I guess this last fact is irrelevant to the impotent left, which is always looking for some surrogate proletariat to lead in the coming revolution, and too busy mooning over Noam Chomsky's latest screed or the latest issue of "The Nation" to actually inform itself about what concerns the average person in the US actually thinks and wants. Fine, go back to your set of "facts", in your Little Impotent Left On-Line Utopia.
 
 
+11 # Bruce Gruber 2012-02-17 19:52
Wait! Thousands? Killed by illegal immigrants? How many are in a "spate"? Do you find these statistics in the 'obituary' section, the police reports or the headlines? 'Factually speaking, was Ms. Warren REALLY asked about Secured Communities..."In the wake of these incidents"? How do you measure "Overwhelmingly popular" things as facts?

Rather, the Britebart/Rove/FOX/emBLAZEned/ Limbaugh/ Beck shitstorm machine has you on a speed dial e-mail list as a sucker for misinformation. They count on you to lend your credibility or venom to their biased propaganda and half truths. You are urged (and expected) to regurgitate and spread their concoctions so they will come at resentful recipients from you so many sources that the 'junk' seems to be FACT.

Whether leftists are busy 'mooning' or suffer impotence is hardly your business. Its offering here suggests little of a 'factual' nature.
 
 
+7 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 07:04
I didn't know right-wingers were interested in what's "overwhelmingly popular". martinfre likes to say that democracy is like two wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner. Obviously, THAT right-winger HATES what's "overwhelmingly popular". What do you think of the fact that 99% of American women have used contraception at some point, but the repuglican party is against it? The idea of single-payer is overwhelmingly popular too. What do you think of that statistic?

Spare us the hypocritical lecture about what's "overwhelminlgy popular".
 
 
+38 # JCM 2012-02-16 10:44
A vote for Scott Brown is a vote for the ideology of less or no taxes for the rich, less regulations on the institutions that have nearly destroyed us and a war against woman, voting rights and the middle class, need I go on. Now, take your pick!
 
 
+23 # Kiwikid 2012-02-16 11:38
Roy, you swallow a camel and strain at a gnat
 
 
-60 # MidwestTom 2012-02-16 09:27
It would allow any employer or insurance company to refuse to cover any person for any treatment

This Elizabeth is exactly what the government will be doing next year under Obamacare. Our company account's husband is a retired veteran and is going through a period with significant health problems. Absolutely nothing can be done for him without VA approval which can take 48 hours in some cases even though the doctor he is seeing wants the test or the scan ASAP. His wife is spending 2 to 5 hours on the phone with the VA trying to expedite approvals. At least in the small business world, where most Americans work, I think that I would rather have someone who understood the situation more closely than the government.
 
 
+38 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 10:24
Who, the health insurance industry? That's a laugh. My mother is under Medicare and lives with Alzheimers in an assisted living center. I find no problems at all with her health care. My neighbor is a vet and goes to the VA and has no problems whatsoever. Anybody, anytime and anywhere can experience a hassle with their healthcare, be it govt. or private.
 
 
+33 # Bope2 2012-02-16 13:43
Tom--you have a point. I imagine you can find horror stories about health care under any system, the VA included. Personally, I can tell you some really crazy ones about dealing with health insurance companies. (By the way, I own and operate a successful small business.) Two points: First, the health insurance industry is not small business and does not care about small business. Second, the Blunt Amendment gives the health insurance industry the option of breaking any contract any time for any reason, as long as they claim a "moral" objection. I don't know if Scott Brown understands small business, but I have a feeling he knows who butters his toast.
 
 
-4 # disgusted American 2012-02-21 02:10
Obamacare is not about access to affordable health care for all. It's a mandate to purchase the broken products under threat of an IRS-enforced tax penalty.

It is the failed MA plan on steroids. In MA, not only individuals and families are being adversely affected but most of the small businesses.

So Dems who all voted in favor of Obamacare also had their toast slathered with butter.

There isn't a d or an r politican in the U.S. who doesn't know who butters his/her toast.

No to Elizabeth Warren. She's an Obama clone and he's done nothing for us, most against us and loves endless war. She supports the same as he does. All of them do on both sides of the aisle.

That's why OWS is out there with, btw, a full calendar of events.
 
 
+10 # Observer 47 2012-02-17 10:28
I don't believe the VA has anything to do with the Obama plan. Last I checked, the VA is overseen by the military. Per Wikipedia, "The United States Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is a government-run military veteran benefit system with Cabinet-level status." I may be wrong, but I think Obama's plan applies to private insurers.
 
 
+34 # oakes721 2012-02-16 09:33
For the last several years legislators have been making non-stop attempts to make high crimes and misdemeanors LEGAL. The push has been for NO ACCOUNTABILITY and little else. Bush's judicial appointments would carefully put in place a rigged game where only the cheaters and liars have voice. Profiting from others' losses by manipulation of these complete sell-outs whose corporate news media reports only propaganda that insures the continuation of corruption, which is total at this point.
 
 
+29 # Shirley 2012-02-16 09:42
Dear Judge..you need to use another name when signing in..
you seem to have no judgement...where on earth do you
get your information???? The comments following this
article should help inform you...geesh!
 
 
+31 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 10:52
Shirley, his sign on name fits him perfectly. Judge Roy Bean was a very nasty character who lived in Langtry, Val Verde County in South Texas in the late 1800's. He was called the Hanging Judge and The Law West of The Pecos and for good reason. Bean was a saloon keeper and justice of the peace. I won't go into his life here, but let it suffice to say that he murdered Mexicans, killed Indians, shot a Jew, and failed to convict a local accused of killing a Chinese, just to name a few highights of his illustrious life. Bean embodies all that was wrong with the American frontier. Great choice of screen names, heh?
 
 
+44 # erogers 2012-02-16 09:51
Keep up the good work Elizabeth and fight the good fight. For every negative comment from a poorly informed individual you have at least 1000 informed individuals supporting you.
 
 
+40 # Holyone 2012-02-16 09:54
Look , the crazies are alive and well , they are the REPUBLICAN PARTY and ALL of their offspring.Throw a few Catholic Bishops and the Pope in for flavor.

Senator(YES) Warren offers a well outlined synopsis of what this bill is trying to do. Kill Health Care Reform and put Americans right BACK where we were before Health Care Reform was law.

Thank you Catholic Bishops who want to take away American Religious Freedoms and make everyone abide by Catholic doctrine.

This means we go back several hundered years where the Catholic Church and the Pope were our overlords. Taliban rules applied.

I am not Catholic and I Certainly do not beleive the riduclous beliefs about the Pope being infallibe nor buying forgivness nor a wagon load of none sense with which these Religiously Challenged "Religious" leaders try to burden people so that they may control the masses.

This is WAR!!
 
 
0 # disgusted American 2012-02-21 02:44
Holyone,

Read details above about how Obamacare works - only the tip of the iceberg. Not pretty.

Wait til you can't afford the gov't approved coverage that the gov't has decided you can afford and the IRS comes after you to pay a tax penalty. Or maybe you'll luck out but 6 of your relatives and 5 friends won't. Then let's hear how great O'care is.

You would do well to read the O'care law and also the disclosures on a Medicaid form which will apply to all Americans at 133% or less FPL b/c they'll be dumped into Medicaid. And read up on estate recovery in OBRA 1993 cuz that's gonna apply to a lot of Americans who end up in crappy Medicaid.

For subsidized plans at the O'care Exchange - under discussion now is the cheapest coverage (plan) at 60/40. You'll be underinsured (can't afford to use it) and will go bankrupt if you get really sick or injured and will struggle trying to pay the premiums which are being negotiated by insurance companies.

O'care is based on the MA plan. Medical bankruptcies in MA have increased since this law went into effect about 6 years ago in MA and 75% of the 316,xxx who are still uninsured can't afford the premiums that the gov't said they could afford. Others can't afford to use the insurance so don't seek care.
 
 
+40 # bluescat48 2012-02-16 09:55
This article is about "that would allow insurance companies and employers to deny health care coverage to anyone for any reason, just when people need it most."

That is the point, that this amendment is bad. It attacks the most vulnerable segment of the populace, the working class. The Blunt amendment is just more corporofascist BS.
 
 
+43 # Kit 2012-02-16 10:18
Well, judgeroybean certainly has succeeded at distracting everyone from the subject of the article, which, I suspect was his (or her) intent all along. The article has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, yet most of the comments address that issue rather than the one addressed in Ms. Warren's article. How clever! This is a classic right wing move. Distract people from the real issue by bringing up a totally unrelated one and diverting attention from the truly important one. The Blunt amendment is an attempt to gut the progress made by President Obama at getting more Americans covered by health insurance. The driving ability (or lack thereof) of illegal immigrants, or anyone, for that matter, has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
 
 
+2 # michelle 2012-02-19 13:06
Agreed and let's not feed the insanity by responding to his/her posts.
 
 
+34 # Bill Clements 2012-02-16 11:13
The Blunt Amendment, which I like to think of metaphorically as a "blunt" weapon wielded by a radical GOP gang of thugs for the expressed purpose of severely, uniformly and indiscriminatel y bludgeoning the American people, is just the latest iteration from a Republican Party that has decided, despite the potentially dire consequences, to double down on rather than moderate their pursuit of a truly extreme conservative agenda.

Remember the good old days when insurance companies practiced the fine art of implementing their policy of "pre-existing condition" as an effective way to deny you coverage for insurance you were paying monthly for? Well, that seems pretty tame compared to what Blunt and his GOP cohorts are proposing, doesn't it?

For anyone who cares to ponder, this is the wonderful dystopia that the GOP is fashioning for the American people. Make no mistake, this is designed specifically to hurt the 99% while at the same time hugely rewarding the insurance industry. Anyone left in America with a remaining doubt about who the GOP has sworn their allegiance to, should be certain now.

The GOP: when you think they've gone as far as they can and some small moderation surely must be at hand, they double down on their extremism. They're like relentless zombies who just keep coming.

Amazing to see someone like Elizabeth Warren in the midst of this madness.
 
 
+4 # jky1291 2012-02-18 15:06
Previously reserved to be shared only with the choir, the Republicans behavior the last 3 years has made my "Republican Perspective" painfully obvious to anyone capable of intelligent thought.

The Republican Perspective
After having been abused, exploited, and worked to death creating the wealthy, and having had their last dime stolen by a society the wealthy have perverted for their own devices, the poor should at least have the common courtesy to die quickly without complaint.
 
 
+3 # Bill Clements 2012-02-19 10:01
Well put! Shouldn't we now include a sizeable portion of the middle class as well, though the separation between the two is getting harder and harder to see?

As for those who have been used and abused, what ingrates; they're using up valuable resources (like air and water) that could be put to better use.
 
 
+32 # giraffee2012 2012-02-16 11:15
Ignore judgeroybean - he's looking for attention and got onto the wrong blog. But remember he represents many of the GOP/TP crazy that rant on TV, eat thanksgiving dinner with me (yes I have some of them as relatives), etc.

NEVER EVER EVER VOTE GOP/TP but get out and vote in 2012 - including "CONTACT your Democratic headquarters to insure people vote Dem / Independent.
 
 
+23 # Bill Clements 2012-02-16 12:09
LOL! He took a wrong turn and ended up here, which perfectly illustrates my point (above) that Republicans have become relentless zombies who just keep coming and coming (or going and going), but without a specific destination or a sense of direction!
 
 
+20 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 12:57
Spot on Bill! Yes, it is like my favorite TV drama, "The walking Dead." Great analogy! Those damn Rethugs (zombies) just keep on coming. They died once, then rise again.
 
 
+21 # Jane Gilgun 2012-02-16 12:21
As a child growing up, I thought we lived in a democracy where people cared for one another. Some of us do, but today we have such loud and angry people who demand that we treat other people as if they are unworthy of justice and care. How sad. How terrible for all of us. Where does such ugliness and heartlessness come from?
 
 
+13 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 12:59
See Bill's comment about "relentless zombies" and I think you'll have your answer. Scary, isn't it? But please don't give up the ship. As Adm. Farragut said, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."
 
 
+16 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 12:54
You're right about Old Beanie! but I say never turn your back on your enemy. He hasn't distracted me one bit from the original article. I'm hip to Scott Brown and the Blunt Amendment. It'll never pass!
 
 
+23 # Vermonster 2012-02-16 12:37
Go Elizabeth, we have your back!
 
 
+23 # moby doug 2012-02-16 14:27
Brown's support of the Blunt Amendment is so destructive to the well-being of normal citizens that it alone should be enough to sink him vs. Warren in the upcoming Massachusetts election. Brown, and every other corporate whore (see? he is not that far from the foldout stripper he used to be), needs to be kicked out of the Senate/Congress so our government can truly become a government the PEOPLE.....not of predatory corporations with personhood.
 
 
+10 # Tippitc 2012-02-16 15:00
I hope that 'judgeroybean' will get on the horse he rode in on and LEAVE!!!!! Pay attention - HEALTH CARE!!!!
 
 
+15 # Todd Williams 2012-02-16 15:11
Congratulations Beanie! As of 6:06 p.m. EST, you have achieved a record breaking 406 negative votes for your comments on this subject. I feel, as a long time reader and poster at RSN, that you may have achieved an all time negative vote record. Only an independent auditor can verify my figures. Although I can't speak for RSN, I believe you deserve some sort of prize or public recognition for your idiot postings. Keep it up, old Beanie. I'm sure you can surpass this achievement on another topic.
 
 
+15 # Ken Hall 2012-02-16 18:31
If JBean, RE, and MT are any indication of the discourse on right wing threads, it must be mind-numbingly ignorant. But yeah, JBean well-deserves the record.
 
 
+11 # Jorge 2012-02-16 19:15
Bean achieved his mission and probably collected a few bucks. Thom Hartmann has explained how it works...troll gets on early with RWNJ rant and we all respond to it and ignore the topic. The RWNJ think tanks have many millions to spend so $25 per troll-post is peanuts. RNS needs to do more or risk losing legitimate readers and a place for discussion ("honing the Progressive message" as BB says).
 
 
+10 # Todd Williams 2012-02-17 05:54
I didn't know that. Wow, Eagle must have made a fortune. He probably recruited Bean to get in on the deal. That's fucked up. Now I'm really pissed off.
 
 
+13 # Marjory Munson 2012-02-17 04:55
Since we are in the sound byte era, let's refer to the proposal as "The Blunt Implement" - damning and true.
 
 
+8 # Windy126 2012-02-17 17:25
Elizabeth Warren is such a breath of fresh air. She is smart hard to rattle and just what this country needs. I would dearly love to see her run for president in 2016.It is about time for women to speak up and out. Men have been in charge for too
long, and have royally screwed things up.
The Blount amendment is tip top of a very slippery slope for health care. You fools don't even realize that the fewer people with health care the more it costs the rest of it. We get to pay for not only accidents, but for sick children and middle aged heart attack
victims. I do not know of anyone who deliberately does not have health care. Contrary to what some of you think, the majority of Americans are honest, caring, and willing to help. These attacks are the works of frightened little people who have no self worth, so they have to take away from others to feel better about themselves. funny part is, it doesn't work, they just feel
the same.
Obama will win again because he is genuine. He cares. The last President who showed compassion was Clinton and he is still loved worldwide by many people.
Jimmy Carter is a true Christian who used to sneak out of the White House to teach Sunday School. He still teaches to this day. But he is also modest, not a horn blower. And in his 80's he and Rosalyn still work on Habitat for Humanity housing. Swinging a hammer.
 
 
+12 # Billy Bob 2012-02-17 18:48
I know I"m a little bit late here, but just let me issue a challenge:

I'd like to know if there are ANY people out there who've been swayed by the likes of martinfre, MidwestTom, LeeNason, forparity, or RobtEagle?

These people are trolls who seem to have an infinite supply of time on their hands to continue ranting extremely unpopular and easily discredited beliefs. I wonder if someone is paying them to do this, because they really don't seem to be winning anyone over. Yet, they just keep coming back for more.

Has anyone out there been changed by the right-wingers who seem to be assigned to these threads?

Over a half a million people read these articles. Surely SOMEONE has been swayed by their arguments, right? Otherwise, their effort would be nothing more than a ridiculously pathetic waste of time. Considering how hard they all claim to work, I can't imagine they'd be wasting their time like that.
 
 
+7 # Jorge 2012-02-17 20:17
Billy Bob- Glad to see you respond. Obviously there are RWNJ trolls on this RSN site with some, as described by Thom Hartmann, paid to outrage/disrupt/distract and the RWNJ "Think Tanks" or others pay them $25 per post. After Progressives respond to their rants it becomes tiresome to see them persist but that is their goal (distract, without convincing anyone, and get paid for it). Thom Hartmann also describes how they may back off after many thumbs-down on their comments and pretend to agree on some overlapping issues and if necessary they show up again on these sites with a new name and similar rant/distraction (Fox talking point or some wedge issue). I would like to hear from RSN as the site seems oblivious to the problem.
 
 
+1 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 08:28
But their trolling doesn't seem to do anything but strengthen our arguments. It seems to benefit us and hurt them.
 
 
+2 # Jorge 2012-02-18 14:42
I think the purpose of the RWNJ trolls is to distract/annoy/dominate the conversation with phony issues/arguments. It's dirty tricks, not a free-speech issue. It is not like we are debating the merits of different ideas, there is no possible conversion or compromise with these guys. For me, if trolls are allowed then they should be limited to 3 responses, maybe a limit of 100 words (our newspaper has limits on LTEs). Otherwise we waste time and energy and they (and the RWNJ "Think" Tanks) win. We could get more bang for our buck by writing Progressive letters to our local newspapers (which I do).
 
 
+1 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 15:50
I actually disagree. I think one of the great benefits of these threads is that we hone our message. We may be anonymous schmucks, but the ideas of schumcks with this many readers can alter the national debate. When we argue with "judgeroybean", we're arguing with the entire right-wing. Other people who agree with us can chime in, or they can read what we say and use it over Thanksgiving dinner the next time their annoying uncle spouts off.

I agree that we need to keep the trolls rants pertinent to the article. That's a real problem with some of them. Of course, every time they try to change the subject, it just makes the right wing look like it has no affective argument to make.

I really do think that, as annoying as these people are, their irritating comments help our cause. This is why the more liberal candidate for most elections is always the one pushing for a debate and the more conservative is always trying to find excuses to avoid one.

It may be a dirty trick, but it's backfiring.
 
 
+1 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 15:51
The right-wing sites don't allow left-wing comments. But, that's not to prevent trolling. It's because they don't have an affective comeback for much of what we say.

I'm glad these people are here. They give us the opportunity to point out, first hand, the stupidity of their phony arguments.
 
 
+10 # Bruce Gruber 2012-02-17 19:10
In that OTHER universe the judge and the eagle have a set of 'facts' and 'truths' they have accepted absolutely. To question, measure , balance or evaluate outcomes resulting from this faith and commitment would, to them, be heresy.

if it is accurate that they are paid shills whose intent is to disrupt these discussions, then they are traitors to the cause of participatory, free and democratic debate. They are are simply playground bullies.

If, on the other hand, their accusatory condemnations truly represent their feelings and they really believe the 'facts' as they present them, then perhaps we should work harder to help them understand the reality we believe. After all, many Southerners have overcome their fear and anger at desegregation, many men have ceased to resent the 'fact' that women have the right to vote, and some Republican politicians believe in evolution (not many, but some).
 
 
+5 # mary martha 2012-02-17 22:50
RSN is a site where serious, constructive discussion of real issues can take place between people who otherwise wouldn't be heard. Perhaps we could just ignore the destructive red herrings (judgeroybean, robt eagle)and keep on with the important--often really vital--topics at hand. (And wouldn't they hate to be ignored! Give 'em another thing to hate.)
 
 
+6 # Bruce Gruber 2012-02-18 08:28
We can TRY, Mary. But ignoring them isn't really likely to make them go away. Our responses to their intrusions are, generally, polite - if somewhat disdainful and condescending toward the often negative, emotional, uninformed righteousness and often racist or homophobic sound bites they regurgitate from hatE-mails.
 
 
+1 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 15:55
When we ignore them, it appears that we don't have a reply for their comments. It makes us look like we've closed our minds and can't defend our positions. When we engage them head on, it shows that our arguments are stronger than theirs.

This isn't just a friendly conversation. This is a public debate, and the more they get involved in it, the sooner their policies will finally fade in the light of day.
 
 
-2 # angelfish 2012-02-19 09:53
There's ENOUGH hatred in the World and their hearts already Mary Martha, WHY would you want to fan the flame? In opening a dialogue with them, they MIGHT be open to reason and learn to see BOTH sides of an issue or, at the very least, another side of it.
 
 
-1 # angelfish 2012-02-19 15:47
Someone disagrees with this? You mean to tell me that we NEED to encourage hatred and animosity? What's the matter with civil discourse. I thought that RSN was a vehicle for exchange of ideas and, possibly, LEARNING something you hadn't heard or didn't know before....oops, my bad.
 
 
+5 # Texas Aggie 2012-02-17 23:14
FWIW I just read some article about interviews Brown has given on the subject, and it appears he is totally clueless as to what the Blunt amendment actually says. Reporters quote it to him and he denies what they say.
 
 
+6 # Billy Bob 2012-02-18 07:09
One thing I like about Warren is that I just heard her make an argument that includes a point I haven't heard repeated a million times. In other words, she may be thinking for herself. That could be the mark of a LEADER. I don't want to jump the gun here. Maybe this was also part of a pile of talking-points discussed by a panel, but I don't recall reading this point on any threads or in other articles. I don't know how long it's been since the last time I heard a politician with thoughts that didn't seem to be pre-screened, market-tested and regurgitated.
 
 
0 # Riley1 2012-02-19 09:17
Billy Bob You seems to be regular to this site usually with insightful comments. Has it occurred to you that the sick puppies and their ilk we endure here from time to time use a Machiavellian agenda to wind up subscribers here who try forward views constructively to a better thinking America to inform learn and discuss issues of the nation that will take us all to a better place. It is essential we tolerate their ill informed and hateful comments. To react to idiots ends up with them dragging you down to their level. They usually beat you with experience. Their argument is always anathema to that which is reasonable as we sadly know they know not what they do.
 
 
0 # Billy Bob 2012-02-19 14:00
This is politics. It's not just an intellectual exercise. It's not enough to have good ideas. In the real world, those ideas will be met with resistence. That's what politics is all about. It's the difference between being great at playing h.o.r.s.e. in the park, and playing in the NBA. Their job is to undermine our ideas, because they disagree with them. Our job is to do the same thing to them. If we win, our ideas become laws. If they win, theirs do. Choosing not to participate to avoid the confrontation is the same as throwing up a white flag. If the loons on our site don't bring up right-wing talking points, actual politicians will. How affective we are at winning these tiffs translates to how affective our side is at enacting legislation. That's just the way it is.

Remember, the point of arguing with the trolls isn't to change the troll. It's to show the fence sitters who aren't committed to either side yet, that we actually have an answer to right-wing attacks. Ignoring them just opens us up to the criticism of being "ivy tower elites" who know nothing about the real world.
 
 
0 # Billy Bob 2012-02-19 14:08
By the way, I don't mind if you disagree with that opinion, and I don't mind if I get a million thumbs down for saying it. I'm not that thin-skinned. Afterall, it's an anonymous thread. If I'm too timid to speak my mind here, when will I ever speak up for anything when push comes to shove? Because, believe me, push ALWAYS comes to shove in politics.

This is the single biggest, most intense, and most frequent argument I get into with the other people on our side. The way I see it, we've tried the "letting them make fools of themselves without bringing ourselves down to their level" tactic ever since the McCarthy era. Where has that gotten us. Sometimes I feel the left is the George McFly character getting kicked in the butt over and over again, and saying "oh, that's real mature!". Sometimes we have to lay Biff out.

It's ugly. It's politics.
 
 
0 # Riley1 2012-02-20 09:53
The argument to win the nation over is always the economy period. Clinton got that right.Look what he did for the economy. Distractions with Idiots on this site is time wasting with respect. Debating any issue with cretins is foolish. Being out there on the line is where the battle for hearts and minds of the nation, America sadly is highly a polarised nation.One is never going to open closed minds.Full employment and the feel good factor gets one elected to office the electorate only recognises that one issue. Which ever party the electorate perceives will offer them the chance of full employment and give them hope of recapturing the American dream will rule again. I remember a kinder wiser America when Eisenhower was President he warned us all of the dangers of the military industrial corporate state ruling. Truly prophetic all the while Nixon scowled in the background awaiting his opportunity.
We finally ended up with a mentally challenged President and the corporate state followed thorough with the neo con agenda of Reagan. With the Bushes propelling the country to war and economic ruin. It is a forgone conclusion that Obama will be elected for another four years unless you want to say the American public are unwise. If they grant him another term pray he takes the senate and the house with him to see through his promises to the American people and hopefully rescind the draconian legislation he signed into law during his past tenure of office.
 
 
+1 # Billy Bob 2012-02-20 10:39
What about the McCarthy era? How many people were lynched in the Deep South during that "kinder gentler" time of Eisenhower's Presidency? As I recall, those things were finally ended (even if only temporarily) through direct confrontation.

If Obama is re-elected and the Democrats get a 60 seat majority in the Senate, do you think it will go any better than it did the last time that happened. The last time, repugs fought everything anyway. The Democrats didn't lower themselves to their level and also didn't get much accomplished.
 
 
0 # Riley1 2012-02-21 00:02
Preaching the 2nd American Revolution is all well and good. However that only comes when the American people are angry enough as a whole. That does not happen by scribbling here and answering idiots. That comes when the nation thinks as one. That is not going to happen with the polarisation you see right now. The corporate state has always had the agenda of the roman art form of divide and concur.
US foreign policy is based on it. When the American people wake up and see what is happening to them in their own nation we may see them realise they have to take back power themselves. We see the little stirrings now. You can bet the forces arraigned against them will go all out to crush that little movement in its infancy as they know it cannot be allowed to grow and prosper. You have already seen agent provocateurs working hard to destroy the occupy movement. Eisenhower prevented Suez and stopped Israel in its tracks and kicked that old colonial power Britain out of Egypt. Egypt to now find it self in the strangle hold of Generals bought and paid for by the US another Neo colonialist power. As for McCarthyism. It is alive and well and is endorsed in the Tea party at present... Am sure you are well aware of it.
 
 
0 # Riley1 2012-02-21 08:35
My fellow Americans wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late.
Stop pontificating here and unite and fight together for your country. Concentrate on what is happening to us all in the country we love. Today we see due to the brutal crackdown of the Occupy Wall Street movement in Oakland, New York, and most recently Los Angeles, that Americans are being denied their First and Third amendment rights. Mayors are sending the message that if one decides to pose a serious challenge to the status quo, they will be violently crushed.

The Constitution is dead and with it the beliefs and ideals America was founded on have also passed away. The most terrifying occurrence, however, is that Americans are seeing their freedoms eroded are still in denial that a police state is slowly, but surely on its way.
Get dam angry and then you are unstoppable.
 

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